Le Mans style finishes and small grids (was 360 MRC Snetterton)

[exflagman]

Originally Posted by White flag man

.
I, and I imagine most other marshals, would not even think about waving all the flags at the end of most meetings (especially F1), for safety reasons and it would probably confused the .... out of some drivers.

Except that the first time I came across this behavior in the UK was at the 1981 British GP when Wattie won.

I was flagging at the Woodcote Gap point - ie just before the finish line -
as Wattie took the chequered the next flag point along the pit straight suddenly started waving the yellow flag - as two back markers had just passed that point I naturally assumed that there had been a shunt going into Copse and was just about to show a stationary yellow - which could have scuppered any last minute overtaking - when the other flags came out as well. Could have been the end of my GP career as my actions would have been very visible to all the chiefs.
Just shows the potential unexpected side effects of some seeming trivial actions.

[Bodysnatcher]

Yeah but in '81 comms was by old baked bean tins and pieces of string.

I think we control all our risks a lot better nearly 30 years on.

[johngee]

I'm a strong believer in treating adults as adults. I also believe that we have to have rules as in 'rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
Please, let's not get too prescriptive about this. I'm sure that we can rely on common sense and good judgement as to when this practice (of celebratory flag waving) is appropriate and safe.
God forbid that people should think that we're actually having fun.

[EvilPumpkin]

If anyone has looked at previous threads on this, you'll see that in general, I'm against Le Mans Style finishes - but equally, I think that circumstances have to be taken into account.

If a post chief doesn't have enough nous to be able to determine if it's relatively safe to do this, then I would think that from a safety perspective, there are far more things to worry about - not least of which is that a post chief who cannot determine whether it's safe to do an LM finish is also not going to be able to determine if it's safe to deal with an incident without additional traffic control being required.

That's a way bigger can of worms.

Bottom line is that common sense needs to apply.

[brickkicker]

Blimy its taken a while to read through all this! I cant believe that its still going strong. As a driver and a marshal I cant really see the problem, when we cross the line we have stopped racing by the time you get to the first corner my only thought is to wave and open with window to let in some air I have those amazing things that I use (most of the time) called eyes, they enable me to see all sorts of things and broken down cars, crashed cars and even oil slicks are easy to spot at most tracks, I will also point out that most of the time I pass a crash/marshals on track etc I see the car or marshal before I see the flag, the main reason for this is that most of the flag points are in rubbish locations and cant easily be seen.
I would love to see it at some of our race meetings (although as has been said maybe not untill the second corner). That said this year I have noticed even more enthusiastic waving from all the marshals posts, I just have to remember when im waving back to turn the corners as well
As for the race, I cant really say anything as I wasnt there but I would wish them well for the future, and if my car would have fitted into a class I might have been interested although having looked at the regs on the website I would have probably not!!

[White flag man]

Just a note about drivers of endurance races knowing when they are finished. Lets not forget the end of the Silverstone 1000kms last year when a driver stooped alongside the pit wall to celebrate with his team when another driver, who wasn't looking (waving at his own team), drove straight into the back of him!

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by White flag man

when another driver, who wasn't looking (waving at his own team), drove straight into the back of him!

...and (had I been the appropriate flaggie) whiich flag would you have liked me to have waved for him to not look at either?

[White flag man]

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

...and (had I been the appropriate flaggie) whiich flag would you have liked me to have waved for him to not look at either?

I was the appropriate flaggie and I was waving the "repeater" checquered flag.

[Lord Summerisle]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Doesn't it happen at the end of every F1 race as well? Sure I've seen it happening at least.

It happens at pretty much every GP.

Except the british, as we're all frightfully British and should stand quietly and safely behind the barrier and wave, just in case something happens to the cars crawling round at min speed picking up bits of rubber, using as little fuel as possible.

[HairyDJ]

Originally Posted by johngee

I also believe that we have to have rules as in 'rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.

Wish I was a driver and could try this on the Clerk if I ignored a yellow, red or black flag and then got invited upstairs for tea & biscuits

Trouble with life (including marshalling) is perception - one man's anarchy is another's initiative .....


I wasn't able to do the 360, but am down for the LMS1000k and am now wondering whether this might (or might not) happen on the 12th? To my mind, it should not be down to an individual PC to decide - if the event organisers really want this to happen then it should be made clear in the drivers' and PC / IO briefings and include clear directions regarding trackside or not.

I doubt that either the MSA or even the event / circuit insurers would get too excited until / unless something went wrong one day ......

[Justin Moran]

I would very much doubt it will happen at the 1000kms Dave, unless its been a scintillating race, which it has rarely been, then maybe, but i really doubt it.

[Woolley]

It's often a good race

It hasn't happened before, and it's unlikely to this time.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by HairyDJ

............ if the event organisers really want this to happen then it should be made clear in the drivers' and PC / IO briefings and include clear directions regarding trackside or not.

......

Good point, I will make sure it goes in the Marshals and drivers briefings for next year.

Problem solved I think, As this thread was regarding this practice being at the 360, perhaps this thread can close?

[terence]

Originally Posted by exflagman

Claire - I wasn't trying to hijack the thread but its just that I find it very strange that senior race control officials were advocating such behaviour, having spent many years as an experienced flag marshal and training instructor trying to educate trainee flag marshals that such behavior is not advisable for a whole raft of reasons.

I really cannot see what the problem is,this has been a LM tradition for countless years so why not for the 360 MRC as well. H&S gone mad!!

I really am very very impressed with all of those of you who were providing us with the back up you gave us on Sunday,I would like to thank you all but mere words seem in-effective. But to you all,my heartfelt thanks and so glad that despite the grid size,you all seemed to enjoy it,who's up for next year?

[PenelopePitstop]

who's up for next year?

I am as long as someone will let me drive one of there cars again.

[stevebrown]

Snetterton has been doing LM finishes for years with no problems from RC. I recall a few at the Willhire 24hrs and the 750MC Birkitt 12hrs in 2000. (It was a one off to celebrate 750MC 50th before anyone says anything). It was usually started by one particular Obs (nice to see his successor carry it on)and was always appreciated by the drivers. I can see the concerns some people have and we British marshals think its not the done thing. But Drivers in endurance racing are slower and they have more time to see whats ahead, especially at Snet where they have slowed enough by the time they get to Richies. I agree with Hairy DJ though that maybe organisers/ RC could make a decision to allow it or not.
BTW I also remember one occasion where an LM finish was instigated after a 10 lapper, rightly or wrongly but it was a special win - Gerry Marshal's 600th win, if that's an excuse.