Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 24 Dec 2009, 12:39 (Ref:2604643)   #1
Marbot
Retired
20KPINAL
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,897
Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!
'Resource Restriction Agreement': The why and the when of it.

In case anyone thought that the budget cap had been completely forgotten:

http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2551

Will the likes of Ferrari and Mercedes have it their own way in the future? Or will 'fresh thinking' shine through?
Marbot is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Dec 2009, 19:29 (Ref:2604781)   #2
awrb
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
United Kingdom
Birmingham, UK
Posts: 809
awrb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Why is it that this is the only industry where we're actually going to enforce redundancies upon people? Surely this is a stupid idea, and we should at least let all these millions of pounds paid in advertising go to employees.
awrb is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Dec 2009, 01:36 (Ref:2604881)   #3
Marbot
Retired
20KPINAL
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,897
Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by awrb View Post
Why is it that this is the only industry where we're actually going to enforce redundancies upon people?
Well, it's not the only industry that makes people redundant is it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awrb View Post
Surely this is a stupid idea, and we should at least let all these millions of pounds paid in advertising go to employees.
Problem is that the manufacturers and sponsors get a bit fed up of losing after a while, and tend to take the "millions" elsewhere (Toyota etc). Are you suggesting that Ferrari share theirs? !!
Marbot is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Dec 2009, 13:44 (Ref:2605656)   #4
Marbot
Retired
20KPINAL
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,897
Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!
Todt to get tough on team spending.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80685
Marbot is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Dec 2009, 22:46 (Ref:2605810)   #5
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,022
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbot View Post
Will the likes of Ferrari and Mercedes have it their own way in the future? Or will 'fresh thinking' shine through?
Mercedes want it. It wouldn't be cheaper to run their own team compared to supplying McLaren under the old unrestricted development system.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Dec 2009, 02:07 (Ref:2605834)   #6
Tourer
Veteran
 
Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Sideways
Posts: 4,704
Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!
IF this can be made to work then it has got to be good for the sport overall. F1 had got to a point that it was synonymous with excess, greed and overspend. Not a good look really.

Very hard to come up with sensible restrictions, to police and enforce them so not an easy task but good luck to the people doing it.

Even with more teams appearing on the grid, there is probably going to be a lot of people currently employed who are looking for work elsewhere, and this is the shame of it. Potentially though, that could mean plenty of talented people ending up in other forms of racing such as F3, touring cars, NASCAR, sports cars etc which could be a boost for all of those categories.

The idea of people losing jobs when things are tough saddens me but I don't think that F1 has much choice - to let things run on as they are is clearly out of step with the rest of the world and probably keeping some potential sponsors away.

It will be interesting to see how this is going to work as the details become clearer.
Tourer is online now  
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue
Quote
Old 29 Dec 2009, 13:27 (Ref:2605966)   #7
Chiefy
Veteran
 
Chiefy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Germany
Cottbus, Germany.
Posts: 874
Chiefy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think restrictions are important, and I share Jean Todt's sentiments that the cessation of development of KERS is a shame. Sadly people will lose their jobs - but with more teams, surely there will be more openings. Those smart enough to think ahead could jump ship to a newer team before losing out at an older one.
Chiefy is offline  
__________________
Belgian GP commentary: "Friday morning was nice and sunny - but not for Erik Comas, who crashed heavily."
Quote
Old 11 Jan 2010, 16:30 (Ref:2611721)   #8
Marbot
Retired
20KPINAL
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,897
Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!
This article suggests that F1 teams are already restricted to a 50 mil budget, reducing to 30 mil for 2011!

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...udget-cap.html
Marbot is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jan 2010, 21:13 (Ref:2611883)   #9
Pingguest
Veteran
 
Pingguest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Netherlands
Heemstede, The Netherlands
Posts: 3,195
Pingguest should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
That 'Resource Restriction Agreement' will be as unenforceable as the budget cap. Therefore this piece of legislation shouldn't be introduced.
Pingguest is offline  
__________________
'Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.' - Enzo Ferrari
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2010, 01:06 (Ref:2612000)   #10
Marbot
Retired
20KPINAL
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,897
Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pingguest View Post
That 'Resource Restriction Agreement' will be as unenforceable as the budget cap.
It's already been introduced and it's probably a lot easier than you think to enforce it.

Sure there are going to discrepencies here and there, but you're going to be able to spot the difference between 40 mil and 140 mil a mile away. It would also be fairly difficult to keep the existence of around 750 employees totally secret.
Marbot is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2010, 12:07 (Ref:2612123)   #11
neiltb
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Scotland
toronto
Posts: 275
neiltb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I can see teams "offloading" developement work to 3rd parties (more than they do already eg brakes). If these companies have a vested interest, they could get some space on the car to show their name.

How would you police that? I could sponsor your team with payment in kind and you get another dozen phantom employees.
neiltb is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2010, 12:56 (Ref:2612144)   #12
Lotusonpole
Veteran
 
Lotusonpole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United Kingdom
NW England
Posts: 758
Lotusonpole should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLotusonpole should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltb View Post
I can see teams "offloading" developement work to 3rd parties (more than they do already eg brakes). If these companies have a vested interest, they could get some space on the car to show their name.

How would you police that? I could sponsor your team with payment in kind and you get another dozen phantom employees.

With regard to 3rd party suppliers:
That is how it used to be ages ago. Before commercial sponsors, the only stickers you might see on an F1 car were those of suppliers with a direct interest, i.e. those of the oil/petrol company, spark plugs, brakes, gearboxes etc.

P
Lotusonpole is offline  
__________________
Madness is a normal condition interupted only by spells of sanity.
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2010, 13:28 (Ref:2612167)   #13
Pingguest
Veteran
 
Pingguest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Netherlands
Heemstede, The Netherlands
Posts: 3,195
Pingguest should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbot View Post
It's already been introduced and it's probably a lot easier than you think to enforce it.

Sure there are going to discrepencies here and there, but you're going to be able to spot the difference between 40 mil and 140 mil a mile away. It would also be fairly difficult to keep the existence of around 750 employees totally secret.
Teams could always outsource and let their sponsors to pay the bill directly.
Pingguest is offline  
__________________
'Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.' - Enzo Ferrari
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2010, 16:03 (Ref:2612236)   #14
Marbot
Retired
20KPINAL
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,897
Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pingguest View Post
Teams could always outsource and let their sponsors to pay the bill directly.
So you don't think that 'out-sourcing' is trackable then?

I wonder what the punishment could be for those that were spending over budget?
Marbot is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2010, 17:01 (Ref:2612268)   #15
JamesH
Veteran
 
JamesH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
United Kingdom
Christchurch, Cambs, UK
Posts: 2,126
JamesH has a real shot at the championship!JamesH has a real shot at the championship!JamesH has a real shot at the championship!JamesH has a real shot at the championship!JamesH has a real shot at the championship!JamesH has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbot View Post
So you don't think that 'out-sourcing' is trackable then?

I wonder what the punishment could be for those that were spending over budget?
It cannot be a fine - that would just be regarded as part of the cost of winning. (i.e. I overspent by 20mill, but got fined 5mil, so really, I just overspent by 25mil, which is good because that overspend won me a race etc) It would have to be loss of results/points.

James
JamesH is offline  
__________________
Locost #54 Boldly Leaping where no car has gone before. And then being T-boned. Damn.
Survivor of the 2008 2CV 24h!! 2 engines, one accident, 76mph and rain.
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2010, 17:24 (Ref:2612281)   #16
Marbot
Retired
20KPINAL
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,897
Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesH View Post
It cannot be a fine - that would just be regarded as part of the cost of winning. (i.e. I overspent by 20mill, but got fined 5mil, so really, I just overspent by 25mil, which is good because that overspend won me a race etc) It would have to be loss of results/points.

James
Exclusion from the current and future championships would probably do the trick.

Some think that McLaren's 100 mil fine was harsh, but in reality it could have been a whole lot worse!
Marbot is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2010, 18:16 (Ref:2612304)   #17
neiltb
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Scotland
toronto
Posts: 275
neiltb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
don't get me wrong, I think a cap is necessary but these F1 types are sneaky and would just find ways to bend or sneak around rules.

I guess that more spec parts certainly gets you a bit closer as someone can't pay to improve it for 'free' if it has to be the same as the next guys.
neiltb is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2010, 18:33 (Ref:2612319)   #18
Marbot
Retired
20KPINAL
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,897
Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!
I think that in future any progress a team will make will most certainly be down to someone having a 'good idea', rather than just throwing money at making what everyone else has got a little bit better. Which is how it should be.
Marbot is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2010, 18:40 (Ref:2612323)   #19
neiltb
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Scotland
toronto
Posts: 275
neiltb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
unfortunately it's the guys who follow the good ideas that get it on the cheap, the development work is done and running.
neiltb is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2010, 20:39 (Ref:2612387)   #20
fourWheelDrift
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,357
fourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltb View Post
unfortunately it's the guys who follow the good ideas that get it on the cheap, the development work is done and running.
That's true but the only benefit they get is to lift themselves to the standard of the others. The team that makes it work first enjoys a brief period in the sun during which their good idea gives them an advantage. It is the nature of F1 that it doesn't last long but for me at least that's one of the things that can make it so interesting.
fourWheelDrift is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Oct 2010, 16:53 (Ref:2782192)   #21
Chiefy
Veteran
 
Chiefy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Germany
Cottbus, Germany.
Posts: 874
Chiefy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I am interested in this after hearing Martin Brundle make a quiet comment about one of the teams in the grand prix last week. I think he referred to Williams and guessed their budget could be in the region of 160m (dollars?).

Does anyone have any knowledge of how the resource restriction agreement is working out in F1? What changes have taken place since its introduction? Is F1 scaling back its budgets in line with its promises?
Chiefy is offline  
__________________
Belgian GP commentary: "Friday morning was nice and sunny - but not for Erik Comas, who crashed heavily."
Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Restriction scoff Sportscar & GT Racing 5 2 Jul 2009 16:41
Drivers agreement. BBKing Formula One 32 18 Sep 2001 16:38


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.