Diesel Engine Discussion

[CTD]

Originally Posted by hcl123

Simply put... why can't other contenders adopt diesel also.

I mean, even following the rational that diesel was benefited, if everybody were on diesel by now... no-one would get to be in advantage. Leveraged playing field.

Is a "race" diesel that so difficult to came by, that only a big constructor employing all its resources could sort out ???... i clearly believe that is not the case.

Staying with an inferior tech( even if so artificially by rules... which is about to be showned that is not so), and begging or whining for arbitrary rule twisting, according to whimps, is a tactic that i would expect from the ultra corrupted "political" class...

I mean, there is no way to really leverage things when there can be so much differences about techs, without "ugly" things happening... and i'm generalizing which should give a better picture... simply put a tech as standard, and abolish all others, or don't twist, let them differentiate and evolve... because now its akin to competing with a small river dam, and whining about parity against a nuclear power plant.. how would be possible to leverage that? (exaggerated but the logic is the same).

It's been said so many times now. The diesel topic, is no longer related to this Peugeot thread. So please take it else where! (ex. do a new thread!)

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by hcl123

Staying with an inferior tech( even if so artificially by rules... which is about to be showned that is not so), and begging or whining for arbitrary rule twisting, according to whimps, is a tactic that i would expect from the ultra corrupted "political" class...

I disagree. It's called choice. And while choice is available, 'people' should be free to exercise that choice. If it happens that the different choice is superior, it doesn't mean the choice is not still theirs. Once you take that choice away you make the decision obligatory - is that really what we want - all diesels by obligation? And as for 'ultra corrupted 'political' class' - you've completely lost me there......

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by knighty

yup - agree with Gwyllon - as much as I find the VW dakar diesel engine very interesting (they only recently changed to a 4-valve per cylinder head!) I would be very very surprised to see it in the back of an LMP1 car......its just dosent suit the regulations, it would be at a huge disadvantage with only 2.5 litres capacity.

Very unbalanced for sure... but not necessarily so in "max" speced torque and power outputs. Simply put "turbo" has the annoying thing of augmenting the effective volume displacement by the way or artificially induced air pressure...

I believe it would be very USEFUL to put in perspective of why the choice of Pug and in addition Audi for diesel... now that all rumors seems to indicate so... and also the possible hybrid solutions...

About motors it may very well have to do with developments about "supercritical" or near supercritical fuel injection(wonder how much of it was already in 2010 for the large Pug advantage)... everybody and their neighbor seems to be on it...
http://www.google.pt/search?q=superc...ient=firefox-a
http://www.diamonddiesel.com/news/Su...-emissions.htm
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009...-20090804.html
http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/23156/page2/
http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2010/...ustion-engine/

augmenting comon rail pressures and internal effective CR and pressures is already providing everything torque/power related better, but also emissions and fuel consumption http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/24151/

About Hybrid systems i don't believe "mechanical" KERS will be implemented in any of this top contenders (ummm... makes little sense)..., a Thermal Energy Recovery System (TERS) could run much bigger "alternators".. and so every engine auxiliary be on electric motors.( drastic drastic parasitic load reduction)

So who ever comes out with a V6 could very well be on this kind of systems... permitting the engine to be pushed much higher (even with 2 less cylinders) without fuel consumption sky rocketing.. better!... 10 liters more in the tank because the systems would not provide any "traction" to the vehicle, SO ITS NOT AN HYBRID... clever exploration of rule "loop whole"...
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008...heat-reco.html

In the end i agree with many this diesel vs petrol discussion is getting disgusting, because in the end is not about the fuel its about "ENGINE TECH"... Mercedes could be coming back with something like this (petrol on diesel tech = no need spark plugs for most of its regimes )
http://www.gizmag.com/go/7679/

This guy (engineer/developer) says that his common street engines(no matter fuel) with up to 300hp will be close the size of a beer aluminum can( the one on the photo could be over 1500hp). http://pesn.com/2010/11/01/9501717_M...ser_to_market/

[Aysedasi]

This thread now contains the off-topic diesel engine posts from the Peugeot 2010-2011 Thread. Any posting of generic diesel 'stuff' in the new Peugeot 90X thread will be removed without further notice.

[Joe Taylor]

Originally Posted by hcl123

In the end i agree with many this diesel vs petrol discussion is getting disgusting, because in the end is not about the fuel its about "ENGINE TECH"... Mercedes could be coming back with something like this (petrol on diesel tech = no need spark plugs for most of its regimes )
http://www.gizmag.com/go/7679/

I really don't see CAI getting anywhere, it has far too many flaws to outweigh any benefits. The only real advantages it offers are reduced NOx emissions and no pumping losses due to throttling (already the case in diesels and Direct Injection), but this comes at a price of higher CO and Unburned Hydrocarbon emissions. It also requires very expensive in-cylinder pressure sensors to control the combustion and can't really run at all when cold as the temperature in the cylinders is too variable to control the inlet conditions to allow successful combustion. CAI can't perform rapid changes in engine speed either.

Mercedes have tried to alleviate the problems with control of combustion when cold and during rapid speed changes by using SI, but there is then usually a poor changeover from spark to auto-ignition, misfire or a sudden drop in power.

Another thing to note is that most CAI engines can only reach a Mean Effective Pressure of around 5 bar, compared to greater than 10 bar in modern petrol and diesel engines.