The GT3 rules- already past their prime? - Page 3

Birddog07 · 26 Jun 2010, 08:34 (Ref:2718100)

Well someone needs to do something. Car costs are very high and continue to rise each year with teams needing expensive upgrades, or even brand new cars, to be competitive.

Ferrari challange cars with a wing sound like a real close competition to a 997 Cup, wonder if the ALMS will allow them to GTC, it'd possibly steal teams from a Grand Am run series. Aren't Super Trofeo Lambo's full GT3 spec?

Speed-King · 26 Jun 2010, 08:56 (Ref:2718116)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birddog07

Ferrari challange cars with a wing sound like a real close competition to a 997 Cup

From what I can remember all 3 types of car elegible for GTCup in the Italian series have scored victories this year, so they are definitely doing something right, there.

Quote:

wonder if the ALMS will allow them to GTC

It would be a logical next step, as there should be plenty of Ferrari Challenge cars in the US already - but then these aren't equipped for endurance racing, so it would take some effort to get them on the ALMS grid.

Quote:

Aren't Super Trofeo Lambo's full GT3 spec?

No, these aren't full GT3-spec cars. They are much closer to the roadcars, e.g. they still have AWD instead of the RWD in the GT3s.

Here you can find some pictures from a Italian GTCup-race from last year:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...09-05-31c.html

Birddog07 · 26 Jun 2010, 14:51 (Ref:2718234)

Cool, never knew that. I just hope the ALMS can do GTC expansion right, it has potential right now just needs sped up alittle and the teams given some nice sticky rubber to run on.

tux · 26 Jun 2010, 22:24 (Ref:2718353)

In todays GT Open race the GT3 spec cars were able to race and beat some of the GT2 cars. For tomorrows race GT3 spec porsche GT3R is on the front row so it shows the GT3 cars if driven properley can be as fast if not faster than a GT2 car which seems abit daft to me.

broadrun96 · 27 Jun 2010, 00:00 (Ref:2718365)

It has sounded a lot like the ALMS is looking into how to integrate new GT3 type cars into the GT-C class, Atherton hinted at some cars being reviewed for the addition next year on the Sebring telecast this year. Would be nice to see them consider at least the Audi, Ferrari or Merc offerings.

Speed-King · 27 Jun 2010, 06:19 (Ref:2718389)

Well, it looks like the Audi will rather show up in GT2:

Quote:

A familiar team is said to be currently setting up shop in Braselton from which it will soon begin preparing an Audi R8 for GT2 in 2011.

(twitter.com/murphythebear)

Quote:

Would be nice to see them consider at least the Audi, Ferrari or Merc offerings.

And no no no no no no it wouldn't. That's the whole point of this thread. GT3 is about as fast and expensive as GT2 now (or perhaps lagging a year or two behind in both areas). There's no point in havinging the current GTC-Porsches crushed by those cars, as it would just serve to destroy the class - but then, the current ALMS-leadership might be fully capable of that.

gwyllion · 27 Jun 2010, 08:32 (Ref:2718412)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Well, it looks like the Audi will rather show up in GT2:

I think that is wishfull thinking. The cars that will show up next year in ALMS will very likely be the R8 LMS in the GTC class.

Dr. Ullrich revealed that current/future projects of Audi Sport: R16 = R8 LMS, R17 = next DTM car and R18 = LMP1 for 2011. No mention of a GT2 car.

Victor_RO · 27 Jun 2010, 08:41 (Ref:2718413)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I think that is wishfull thinking. The cars that will show up next year in ALMS will very likely be the R8 LMS in the GTC class.

Dr. Ullrich revealed that current/future projects of Audi Sport: R16 = R8 LMS, R17 = next DTM car and R18 = LMP1 for 2011. No mention of a GT2 car.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that someone might want to buy a GT3-spec R8 LMS and upgrade it to GT2 regulations privately. If the money is there.... also, one thing that was noticeale at the Nurburgring 24h, the R8 LMS has paddleshifters, and with new GT2 regulations, that's a hassle overcome, because they're allowed from 2011. It's probably a matter of restrictors, aero and suspension tweaks.

Speed-King · 27 Jun 2010, 08:50 (Ref:2718416)

Quote:

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that someone might want to buy a GT3-spec R8 LMS and upgrade it to GT2 regulations privately

I am not sure, if you'd even need to upgrade it. With the right restrictors and ballast it is certainly fast enough to run with the GT2s as seen in last years 24 hours of Spa.
And IMSA has a history of allowing not fully rules-compliant cars in ALMS - just give them 47 or so waivers and they are good to go...

gwyllion · 27 Jun 2010, 19:41 (Ref:2718841)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I am not sure, if you'd even need to upgrade it. With the right restrictors and ballast it is certainly fast enough to run with the GT2s as seen in last years 24 hours of Spa.
And IMSA has a history of allowing not fully rules-compliant cars in ALMS - just give them 47 or so waivers and they are good to go...

I don't think this "upgrade" is that straightforward as you believe.

The car is 100 kg overweight: 1340 kg compared to 1245 for most GT2 cars.

The engine of the GT3 R8 is road car version with a different exhaust system (race catalytic converters). They need to develop a proper race engine that is competitive with the air restrictors. Manufacturers tend to go for the maximum displacement for a given restrictor size. So Audi has probably to decide whether to go for 5.0 or 5.5 liter.

It is not clear whether the GT3 aero (front splitter, rear spoiler, ...) is legal in GT2. I believe the rear wing is too big. So probably here is some work to be done as well.

**FIRE** · 27 Jun 2010, 19:56 (Ref:2718853)

Reiter developed Lambo Gallardo GT2 engine?

HORNDAWG · 28 Jun 2010, 01:03 (Ref:2719024)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I am not sure, if you'd even need to upgrade it. With the right restrictors and ballast it is certainly fast enough to run with the GT2s as seen in last years 24 hours of Spa.
And IMSA has a history of allowing not fully rules-compliant cars in ALMS - just give them 47 or so waivers and they are good to go...

Hmm, and yet the cars that you CLAIM have 47 waivers are FULLY ACO COMPLIANT, as they ran at Le Mans. Amazing that, isn't it?!

L.P.

Speed-King · 28 Jun 2010, 05:23 (Ref:2719072)

Just goes to show that the ACO is about as weak as IMSA...

Speed-King · 12 Apr 2011, 10:36 (Ref:2862328)

From time to time, I like to revisit this thread. This time an interesting quote from Jo Jamers made me do so. Jamers is the principal of First Racing, one of the top teams in Belcar, that is, however, sitting out this season:

Quote:

Now driving GT3 cars from the present generation is as expensive as the GT1 few seasons ago. The group of teams / drivers that can still cough up these budgets decreases.

Source (I've cleaned up the syntax a little in the quote above)

Can this even be true?

**joeb** · 12 Apr 2011, 13:22 (Ref:2862402)

I have been wondering about GT3 costs lately myself. With GrandAm wanting to adopt versions of GT3 cars, and the costs of GT3 supposedly increasing, I would have thought this went against the GA model.

Although, I wonder how bad costs really are. This year not only do we have all the national championships and the FIA GT3, but now we have the Blaincopan Series as well, so the costs must not be too prohibitive.

Speed-King · 12 Apr 2011, 13:54 (Ref:2862424)

Quote:

With GrandAm wanting to adopt versions of GT3 cars, and the costs of GT3 supposedly increasing, I would have thought this went against the GA model

Versions being the key word. For once, I think GA won't be as liberal as SRO when it comes to implementing updates on the cars. And then, they might also be able to increase engine life and decrease maintenance costs by having the cars run at a lower maximum RPM. So while the initial costs might be rather high, running costs might be a good deal lower than in Europe.

Been thinking about Jamers' comments for a bit: The only GT1s that ran in Belgium were Vipers, C5Rs and some homebuilt Turbo-Porsches. At least the Viper was produced in similar numbers as current GT3-cars...

Francesco · 12 Apr 2011, 17:45 (Ref:2862515)

GT3 started as "Performance balanced Cup Cars" and is now costly as a 2001-2004 GT2... which is a BIG difference, the good thing is that you can have a lot of variety in it, the bad one is that the prices are becoming a little bit crazy...

Until SRO will have a strong number of series supporting GT3 rules (VLN, 24h of Spa, Blancpain Endurance, ADAC GT and FFSA) they will survive quite good but the costs need to be controlled, in Italy we have THREE cars for the whole GT3 season (the rest of them is "performance balanced" cup cars from Lambo, Ferrari and Porsche... old 997, 430 and the Supertrofeo)

British GT has always been a strange championship, SRO never really got it going, and there are so many other GT races (GT Cup, Britcar and so on) and so many different cars (TVRs, Marcos, Moslers, tuned M3s) that few people like to spend so much money to race a GT in a national championship

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