[Qualifying] Is Q3 such a big advantage?

[Vettel in a Williams]

After watching Qualifying today I was disappointed (at first) to see Barrichello and both Force India's come so close yet just miss out on Q3 yet it got me to thinking....

After the last race, where we saw Webber cut his way through the field using his extra tyres to his advantage, and end up on the podium, should teams like Williams, Force India, Sauber & Torro Rosso be pushing so hard to get into Q3 or did Paul di Resta have it spot on today by only doing 1 run in Q2 and qualifying in the top end of the Q2 drop outs?

I think Paul was very clever today. After using a set of the softer tyres to get into Q2 he then saved on tyres by only doing 1 run in Q2.

I'd like to see more of this strategy from the midfield teams as it could make for a more entertaining race, especially strategy wise, if gthese teams can take more sets of brand new softer tyres into the race.

[Marbot]

I don't think that it is such a big advantage any more. Certainly there are some drivers who have two or even three sets of new soft tyres, thinking that they can do something pretty special from quite a long way back on the grid.

Some of the drivers that got through to Q3 may only have one set of decent soft tyres to play with.

Remember that the soft tyre is about 1 to 1.5 seconds quicker than the hard tyre and lasts only a bit less longer than the hard tyre, but only when it's not been used to qualify on.

[MJones94]

I think you have a good point as they (those outside the top ten) are able to choose which tyres to start on will help them in some aspects as well. You have to remember though that even though Mark Webber's strategy was an inspired choice, that he was in the fastest car on the grid which allowed him to get that podium. Nonetheless I think if the midfield runners play their cards right, then they might get some points.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Vettel in a Williams

I think Paul was very clever today. After using a set of the softer tyres to get into Q2 he then saved on tyres by only doing 1 run in Q2.

So he used 2 sets of soft and saved a fresh set for the race? Good on him, but then Vettel used hard in Q1, 1 set of softs in Q2 and 1 set in Q3, so he has the same amount of fresh rubber as Paul but about 12 grid positions advantage.

Don't get me wrong i'm not rubbishing Di Resta's efforts but everyones done the same basiclly so status quo everywhere, with one exception - Kobayshi, but then he's in the same situation as Webber last time out.

Imo, the only time anyone has an advantage is when they have 4 fresh sets, 1 for every stint.

Everyone goes on about Marks drive at China and it was a great drive, but people say how, had the race been 2 laps longer he would have won etc, but fact is, the race wasn't and Lewis and Seb did enough on used rubber to finish ahead.

[Marbot]

Webber started the race (Sepang) on the hard tyre, and initially looked to be going backwards! A safety car would have done him some good there, which is probably what he was hoping for. Maybe that's what some will be hoping for tomorrow?

[Vettel in a Williams]

Originally Posted by Mr V

So he used 2 sets of soft and saved a fresh set for the race? Good on him, but then Vettel used hard in Q1, 1 set of softs in Q2 and 1 set in Q3, so he has the same amount of fresh rubber as Paul but about 12 grid positions advantage.

Is anyone expecting di Resta to finish ahead of Seb though?

The advantage that di Resta has now is over the likes of the Renault's, Massa & Schumacher.

That's what I was really getting at. If you didn't get that from my OP than I apologize for it being misleading and not coming across correctly.

[slicktoast]

Could the last half of Q3 turn into a garaged yawn fest? Thanks, Red Bull! (oh, and Massa)

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Mr V

So he used 2 sets of soft and saved a fresh set for the race? Good on him, but then Vettel used hard in Q1, 1 set of softs in Q2 and 1 set in Q3, so he has the same amount of fresh rubber as Paul but about 12 grid positions advantage.
.

'Tis true. But Di Resta can start on the hard tyre first (hope for safety car), and probably isn't looking to win the race.

[Mr V]

I never said that Di Resta was going for the win. I was using Seb as an example that basiclly everyone is now doing the same thing so the advantage isn't the same.

People need to start chilling out on this forum!

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I never said that Di Resta was going for the win. I was using Seb as an example that basiclly everyone is now doing the same thing so the advantage isn't the same.

I said in a thread after Sepang that once the teams started to get their heads around the tyres then they would all head towards a strategy that works and the racing could get less unpredictable.

I think that we saw the first inkling of that in Turkey qualifying - the race will be the proof (or not).

It is quite common for there to be pretty varied approaches with new rules / equipment but then for everything to settle down once they all understand the optimum approach.

In my view though, qualifying well is still important but there is risk in burning up too many tyres to achieve it. Also, drives like the Webber effort in China will become harder to achieve as teams optimise their approach to the race and most are on the same tyres at the same time.

[Mr V]

With regards to Marks drive in China also. Had Red Bull reacted to Lewis's stop, Mark would still have finished third, but the other Red Bull driver would have won the race.

[Vettel in a Williams]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I never said that Di Resta was going for the win. I was using Seb as an example that basiclly everyone is now doing the same thing so the advantage isn't the same.

People need to start chilling out on this forum!

Well it was a strange comparison to make then because not everyone is doing the same. di Resta clearly has an advantage over the Renault's, Massa and Schmacher in the tyre deparment so therefore has a decent* chance of finishing in front of them tomorrow.

As for chilling out. I apologized that my OP may have been misleading and you tell me to chill out. I'll learn not to be so nice in the furture then eh

*note I said decent and not guaranteed (just incase that's your next point you want to jump on) How's that for chilling out

[b1ackcr0w]

I reckon if you asked Heidfeld or Schumacher whether they'd rather have 8th and 9th on the grid, or 11th and an extra fresh set of softs, the answer would be the latter.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Vettel in a Williams

As for chilling out. I apologized that my OP may have been misleading and you tell me to chill out. I'll learn not to be so nice in the furture then eh

[/SIZE]

Care to point me to the part where i was singling you out.

[Vettel in a Williams]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Care to point me to the part where i was singling you out.

From the content of your post it appears that you are replying to me. So to finish it off with the chill out comment, I have obviously (wrohly) assumed that it was aimed at me.

As it turns out I got it wrong and there was no advantage gained from di Resta, Sutil or Barrichello.

It seems that the best advantage seems to be had by going out in Q1 as messrs Kobayashi and Webber have both done recently.

[Super Hans]

I think it gives teams another strategy option, which is a good thing. Sacrificing track position for the promise of quicker race pace.

[Marbot]

Indeed. There used to be a time when getting pole was half way to winning the race. Glad that it's merely just a part of race strategy now. Not that getting as far as you can up the grid doesn't have any importance at all.

[rocketracer]

where i think it will be interesting is in places like monaco, canada etc, where there is a high likelihood of safety cars bringing the field back together.

Take for example monaco:
I imagine there will be many teams trying to use hards first, and gamble on the lap deficit being eradicated via a safety car, and then using fresh sets of softs to be able overtake cars on older rubber through the tunnel.

Even though monaco has proven extremely hard to overtake in the past, i think some teams will go conservative and go for track position on old tyres, which may leave them vulnerable to an alternate strategy such as above. and we have seen that 3s per lap is about the margin between a worn and fresh set.

Having said this, i'm definitely no strategist, so i'm likely to be completely wrong and we'll get a predictable procession!