[Official] Round 11- Hungarian Grand Prix

[old man]

Originally Posted by HughGJohnson

He was parked broadside accross the racetrack. How safe is it to just hang out there while there's a race going by a few inches away? His correction was almost a perfect pivot and clearly was not malicious at all. I think justice was done; a drive-through and no more. I'm really puzzled how some people are demonizing him for this.

Quite correct Mr Johnson, well said

[HughGJohnson]

Originally Posted by Kempi

It's safer to sit and wait since a stationary car is easier to avoid than one doing a 180. Yes, they got great car control, still you never know what can go wrong when spinning your car around. Nothing much can happen when you stay stationary, it simply leaves more options for avoiding you.

As I said I believe a penalty was just. I don't think it's just to suggest he's putting more value in 3 seconds of race time than another driver's safety. He should have turned the other way (away from the race line and with the flow of traffic), however. I think that’s where the mistake was. Di Resta came out of the chicane and had a car pointed right at him. That was not fair to him from either a safety or racing perspective. But, I don't think Hamilton could see Di Resta at all. I think it was just unlucky timing and an honest mistake that he forced Di Resta off. He certainly wouldn't want to risk having his wing ripped of by a lapped car while he’s still in second place and has a chance to win.

In the heat of the moment during the race it's quite natural to want to get going immediately, especially in that situation. I'm sure he felt very compromised. In addition to wanting to get on with his race I'm sure he wanted to get going as quickly as possible for the safety of everyone concerned.

Originally Posted by old man

Quite correct Mr Johnson, well said

Thank you, sir.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by HughGJohnson

As I said I believe a penalty was just. I don't think it's just to suggest he's putting more value in 3 seconds of race time than another driver's safety. He should have turned the other way (away from the race line and with the flow of traffic), however. I think that’s where the mistake was. Di Resta came out of the chicane and had a car pointed right at him. That was not fair to him from either a safety or racing perspective. But, I don't think Hamilton could see Di Resta at all. I think it was just unlucky timing and an honest mistake that he forced Di Resta off. He certainly wouldn't want to risk having his wing ripped of by a lapped car while he’s still in second place and has a chance to win.

In the heat of the moment during the race it's quite natural to want to get going immediately, especially in that situation. I'm sure he felt very compromised. In addition to wanting to get on with his race I'm sure he wanted to get going as quickly as possible for the safety of everyone concerned.


Thank you, sir.

Well said Hugh.
After watching repeated replays this was hardly a serious matter, a driver getting on with his race...

I have seen a lot worse than this over the last thirty years of following the sport....
So was the penalty harsh?
In my view, yes.
Is it something to demonize him over?
Absolutely not. He paid a penalty whether justified or not. So its done. You can't go back and change it.

Get over it. Move on.
Hamilton made a mistake. He's human.
Maybe the stewards made a mistake. They're human too.

[Bononi]

That's right, move on, three week holidays !

[dsg]

Originally Posted by HughGJohnson

He was parked broadside accross the racetrack. How safe is it to just hang out there while there's a race going by a few inches away? His correction was almost a perfect pivot and clearly was not malicious at all. I think justice was done; a drive-through and no more. I'm really puzzled how some people are demonizing him for this.

Yet to see anyone demonising Hamilton , but anyway the penalty was fair for a thoughtless decision to do a spin turn into oncoming traffic. Even more so if he could not see if anyone was coming toward him as some on here are trying to use as justification for his decision.

Driving off the track onto the acres of runoff tarmac and rejoining when it was safe would have been the sensible decision. Had any other driver made the same mistake as Lewis, the same penalty would be appropriate and just.

Do the crime, serve the time as they say. Done and done.

[HughGJohnson]

Originally Posted by dsg

Yet to see anyone demonising Hamilton , but anyway the penalty was fair for a thoughtless decision to do a spin turn into oncoming traffic. Even more so if he could not see if anyone was coming toward him as some on here are trying to use as justification for his decision.

Driving off the track onto the acres of runoff tarmac and rejoining when it was safe would have been the sensible decision. Had any other driver made the same mistake as Lewis, the same penalty would be appropriate and just.

Do the crime, serve the time as they say. Done and done.

My idea of demonizing:

Originally Posted by deeks6

SHOCK!!! - Lewis Hamilton drives dangerously

(Real) Shock - he rightfully (finally) does not get away with it. Looks like you're on notice HamiltHoon and about time.

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

I disagree. It was a completely reckless manoeuvre that forced another competitor to leave the track in avoidance. Hamilton got of lightly imho.

Originally Posted by Taprobane

This [refering to above post]. Think the punishment was appropriate.

Originally Posted by wnut

Totally reckless!!

The penalty was very mild for what he did imo.

aparently you agree with me on the reason for and the justice of the penalty...

Originally Posted by HughGJohnson

As I said I believe a penalty was just. I don't think it's just to suggest he's putting more value in 3 seconds of race time than another driver's safety. He should have turned the other way (away from the race line and with the flow of traffic), however. I think that’s where the mistake was.

I don't think that not being able to see is an excuse for spinning towards the traffic. I think that was out of his control (his visibility) and is irrelevant, because he should have turned the other way. It should be noted that there was no runoff area to use. He would have had to traverse the circuit backwards to get back to the (small) chicane runoff.

[EGG]

I don't know what prompted it, but there was an appreciated lack of shark-fins in the Hungary race. I've seen them dropped at circuits on some cars in the past, but not I don't think, on what looked like all cars present.

[bella]

Originally Posted by HughGJohnson

I don't think that not being able to see is an excuse for spinning towards the traffic. I think that was out of his control (his visibility) and is irrelevant, because he should have turned the other way. It should be noted that there was no runoff area to use. He would have had to traverse the circuit backwards to get back to the (small) chicane runoff.

i'm too lazy to read the entire thread and check if this was mentioned already but i noticed a fair comment about this on twitter from someone - he actually didn't use any more than his car footprint from where it was sat after he'd spun to turn the thing around and be on his way. if he'd have sat and waited patiently with his handbrake on checking both mirrors and his blindspot for a gap in traffic he'd have been there forever.

lewis seems to be remarkably good at getting himself into no-win situations (hah, literally) on track this season. you're penalised if you do, and penalised if you don't. i can see him getting a drive through at monza for avoiding an avoidable accident and skipping a chicane, for example...

[Marbot]

I'm not so sure that Di Resta would have felt too comfortable driving right alongside Hamilton on the bit of tarmac that he had left free.

The more I look at the incident the more I find it difficult to believe that Hamilton didn't see any other cars or that he never forced another car off the track. Bang to rights!

We've been here before though, haven't we? Had Alonso, Vettel or Schumacher done it......

[bella]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I'm not so sure that Di Resta would have felt too comfortable driving right alongside Hamilton on the bit of tarmac that he had left free.

no, but i think you have to look at whether his actions were reasonable given his choices. di resta's avoiding actions certainly were, all things considered.

i fail to believe anyone would intentionally spin the car round in the middle of the track in the middle of oncoming traffic. more likely is that he didn't *think* to look, which is different from not looking. that's an instinctive reaction and far more difficult to change, especially by awarding a penalty to indicate it's wrong. fine, but how do you influence instinctive decision making?

or how about if he tried to turn his head but thanks to the high cockpit sides and hans device limitations genuinely couldn't see whether there were cars approaching - what would his choices be in that situation? bail out of the car and retire, or struggle into reverse gear to back it up which could also be risky because he couldn't see if any cars were taking avoiding action behind him?

how can you say he could see the traffic coming? have you personally sat in a 2011 car with full hans and helmet and tested the field of view? unless you have and can provide us with a valuable insight i suggest you apply the benefit of the doubt.

that's the sort of thing we could do with the bbc f1 coverage doing a bit of a feature on, the reality of cockpit vision and perhaps some handy graphics to assist since onboards don't help to replicate the situation. it'd help us armchair stewards when we're deciding whether to penalise a driver or not

oh and fwiw, i'm not biased any way. i'm on the side of considered views and opinions, not any particular driver. in f1 at least

[HughGJohnson]

Originally Posted by bella

i'm too lazy to read the entire thread and check if this was mentioned already but i noticed a fair comment about this on twitter from someone - he actually didn't use any more than his car footprint from where it was sat after he'd spun to turn the thing around and be on his way. if he'd have sat and waited patiently with his handbrake on checking both mirrors and his blindspot for a gap in traffic he'd have been there forever.

lewis seems to be remarkably good at getting himself into no-win situations (hah, literally) on track this season. you're penalised if you do, and penalised if you don't. i can see him getting a drive through at monza for avoiding an avoidable accident and skipping a chicane, for example...

Yes, I pointed out he made an almost perfect spin to rejoin the race. I even added I thought it would be dangerous to sit still where he was. But, I'm of the opinion that he shouldn't point the car rearwards, especially into the face of oncoming traffic. When Di Resta (or anyone else) comes out of a chicane and sees a car pointed at him, he can't trust it will stay right where it is.

If he turns the wheel the other way then he would have pointed the car away from oncoming traffic and with the flow of traffic. That also would have left room for error. If he'd have done that and got a penalty I would be singing a different tune. I don't think it was a big deal, but I understand the penalty.

[mac]

Hamilton didn't pause to think about whether or not there was oncoming traffic... He spun, and was trying to get going again ASAP regardless of what was around him. This is understandable, yet somewhat reckless... It deserved a penalty - and Lewis copping it on the chin (when we know he doesn't always make a habit of this) is probably a good indication that he realises it.

[luke g28]

Originally Posted by HughGJohnson

If he turns the wheel the other way then he would have pointed the car away from oncoming traffic and with the flow of traffic. That also would have left room for error. If he'd have done that and got a penalty I would be singing a different tune. I don't think it was a big deal, but I understand the penalty.

I thought there was a couple of other cars with Di Resta that went this side of Hamilton, he would have then had the same penalty for spinning towards these cars.

Stuffed either way really.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by luke g28

I thought there was a couple of other cars with Di Resta that went this side of Hamilton, he would have then had the same penalty for spinning towards these cars.

Stuffed either way really.

I was just thinking the same thing. Di Resta went outside of him. Button went inside of him.

There was quite a lot of tarmac between Hamilton and the outside edge of the track. Di Resta could have gone by with no more than running his outside wheels along the kerb, but I don't blame him for wanting a bigger gap.

It was fundamentally a dangerous situation, and it didn't turn into an accident because luckily all the following drivers missed Hamilton. Whether he had turned left or right or sat there and waited, he might still have been hit if luck wasn't with him.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

I was just thinking the same thing. Di Resta went outside of him. Button went inside of him.

Button was going to pass Di Resta, but realised that he couldn't because of the yellow flags. So he had to back off which allowed Hamilton to catch him. The rest is history.

[Bononi]

All that weekend is history by now.