205 a 1.6 or a 1.9

[SFurness]

Hello,

I'm currently running a Peugeot 205 1.6 GTi in the CSCC Tin Tops.

This winter it will be due for an engine rebuild and I'm considering taking it up to a 1.9. I believe it is the stroke that makes the difference.

The current spec is:

1600cc on 45mm Throttle Bodies, Big Valve fully flowed head with 3 angle valve seats, Kent PT28 Race Cam with Vernier Cam Pulley, Forged Pistons with ARP big end bolts, New Alloy Flywheel and Helix 4 Paddle Ceramic Clutch. All Lightened and Balanced. The engine produces 165 BHP.

What would you think/know/expect it to produce if the sort of spec above was on a 1.9.

Simple answers I'm a builder (not engine builder).


Steve

[billyboy205gti]

the difference between 1.6 and 1.9 is 15 hp as standard, so I'd guess at about 180 to maybe 190 as a race engine in that spec.

what you really want is an mi16 engine.

[SFurness]

Hi,

For the CSCC series the engines have to be to the original format so 16 valve heads are not allowed.

Other than that you can do what you want.


Steve

[Tim Wilkinson]

There were some 205 1.9s in Toyo ModProds a few years ago (04/05 ish). I can't remember the name of the chaps involved, but there were 2 or 3 of them and I think they were associated with the X-Sport racing lot from the south coast. Maybe PM Woody on here (he posts in the National & Club forum) as I think he knows them. Greg Rose might have had one.

Anyway, those 205s were reputedly running above 200bhp. There was a magazine article on one of the cars in Retro cars (it was the cover car, I think) around that time that went into tech details about what had been done. Unfortunately I recycled it last week. Sod's law!

[Notso Swift]

Remember the bigger capacity motor will typically handle more ccam than a smaller one

Capacity change is about 15%, you normally will not get the same VE (which would give you the same proportionate power) but you should be looking as close as possible.
There may be limits on additional air flow, I will presume you already have the biggest allowed valves, hence needing to use abit of that resiliance to a longer cam.

[graham bahr]

you should be looking around 190 195 bhp with a good bit more torque

[greenamex2]

I used to race against the aforementioned 205's in Mod Prods and before then in Super Road Saloons.

A decent 1.9 (taken to 2.0 or more) will be over 200BHP. As it will still weigh the same a your 1.6 car it will be significantly quicker.

My car will eat 1.6's for breakfast, the bigger engined cars would have to have a problem for me to beat them.

Or if you fancy 250BHP plus then stick a sixteen valve in it and race in Classic Thunder as per Gareth Porter.

[SFurness]

Good afternoon,

Back from the weekend at Anglesey where there was a 1.9 (different race to mine) with a M16 head giving 240 bhp, however, in our series the car must use the original engine type which excludes the 16 valve head.

I was thinking on the lines of 190/195 bhp from a 1.9 8 valve which would be 18% lift in power.

The 1.6 wieghs in at 705 kg so around 800 with fuel and driver. As it stands now that equates to 206 bhp per tonne but moving up to 1.9 would give 244 bhp per tonne.

Granted this is making quite a few assumptions.

The car already has a big brake conversion to stop it but the tyres are a limiting factor as any over enthusiasim with the middle pedal locks up wheels.

I think it would be well worth the effort but as with everything it will be down to what money is available.


Steve

[bdwoody]

steve greg rose did have a 205 as did sean holland , the latter was a 1.9 on throttle bodies and produced 235bhp . the problem is that they are incredibly fragile at that state of tune and knock the bottom ends out as a past time. greg did 7 engines in 1 season !! sean's car was the one on the cover of the mag as mentioned above and was a very quick car but he did spend a lot of time playing with it to keep it on song and when he sold it , it went bang soon after. richard brent has raced one also in DMN to great effect winning the championship , but he also had a few go bang ! the answer is go with the gti6 /mi16 motor or don't rev the clacker out of it ! WOODY.

[SFurness]

Hi Woody,

I'm doing 40 minute races with the CSCC so fragile engines are not wanted.


The current engine is limited to 7500 rpm but I will usually change up at 7000 ish.

After Mallory in a couple of weeks it will have about 8.5 hours on the engine so will be due a rebuild. It will also be the end of my very short season (3 races)


Steve

[Notso Swift]

THe 1.9 will have faster bearing speeds, but I wouldn't think that was much of an issue because I doublt it will be too much, more later al load on the piston with longer strock and shorter rods, again, they have been around so long I doubt it is an issue
THe other thing you will find is when you make a mistake the torque will help you recover a bit better
So average lap times tend to be better as well as the "ultimate" time

GO 1.9!!!