Motorsport Eng. course

[Sergio Sousa]

I would like to obtain some advice about which University I should choose for the Motorsport Engineering course.

I have provisional acceptance for Brunel, Central Lancashire, Oxford Brookes and West of England Universities.
Currently I am studying in Portugal and will complete secondary school this summer, as well as my qualifications in IGCSE in English and Portuguese.

What university do you consider to be the best and why?

Regards

Sérgio Sousa

[tristancliffe]

I went to Brunel and read Mechanical Engineering. Seemed like a great place overall. But I don't know if the others are better.

[bella]

it was probably different in the past and for different courses, but try and avoid brunel now. i've got a couple of friends who have done degrees there and have graduated in the last few years but are finding employers to be less than positive about their university. it's only the final year now that has any specific relevance to motorsport.

as for the others, look for the opportunity to work on a relevant racing car like a formula ford or a f3 car rather than formula student. i believe uclan (central lancashire) still run some sort of fford? my cousin is a masters student there in a journalism course and she really likes it there too

oxford brookes is supposed to have a good reputation as well?

[Sergio Sousa]

Thank you for your replies

Oxford Brookes is going to be one of my choices. I have not decided between Brunel and Lancashire, some people say that Brunel is very good, others prefer Lancashire.
My concern with Lancashire is being located in the North, probably far way from teams?

[bella]

that's a fair consideration - there's quite a few teams based in the north, and they'd be not much further to travel than say the ones in the northamptonshire area from brunel.

one friend who did both a degree and a masters at brunel has managed to do 4 years at university without touching a racing car (aside from formula student, and that barely ran). another was lucky enough to get a f1 placement during her industry year, but has been told by another in an interview recently that her university is badly regarded and not taken seriously, despite her excellent grades.

[JimW]

If you are going to look at the various league tables to help you make a choice of institution, don't forget to consider the university separately from the course.

Regards

Jim

[BrookesMatt]

I would recommend Oxford Brookes.

I am currently in my third year (drawing to a close now) on a MEng in Motorsport Engineering.

I am undertaking a placement at Rolls Royce gas turbines starting in June for 12 months and have had four interviews at Red Bull Racing (different roles), Mercedes GP, Mercedes HPE, Xtrac gearboxes as well as invites to assessment days from Cummins and CAT diesel engines. I am not an exceptional performer either with my current average towards a high 2:1.

Currently their are students at Force India F1 and graduates have gone to Renault F1 too.

I think this shows the reputation built up by the university and the staff have also have a very good pedigree. On the downside the semesters are cramped and the hours required to do well on the course are extensive.

Hope this helps your decision.

Matt

[Sergio Sousa]

Thank you all for such a great support


I live in Portugal and I am not able to travel to the UK in order to visit the Universities. Initially I tried to contact most of the British based teams, but the few ones that replied, said that they could not help me, so I have been talking with people who studied there or have been involved with British motorsport and many opinions differ. Tomorrow is the deadline to make my decisions.

Oxford is going to be in one of my two choices, for the remaining spot I am considering Brunel and Lancashire. The opinions of the people I have spoken with differ about Brunel; some say is very high standard, even better the Brookes, other say that it is not so good and lacks in terms of practical work. About Lancashire, I have not heard complains, normally say that is good but is rare to find someone who says it is very good. Does anyone know both universities?

[ascarracinguk]

definately oxford brooks or brunel....both extremely good universities

i think brunel is considered to be better than lancashire, but it is more theory based, lancashire is more hands on. having said that brunel has its own formula student team that you can get involved with, and there is nothing stopping you from finding local race teams an giving them a hand to prepare their car for free at the weekends

[bella]

every university has a formula student team. formula student teaches you nothing about current motorsport. what's more important is running a "proper" car in a real life series. building a car that'll just about make it round some traffic cones doesn't match up.

[tristancliffe]

In my experience, the people on the Formula Student teams are the people who like cars, but actually know nothing about them. The people at uni who do know enough to run/design/create the cars tend to not bother with it, and concentrate on learning useful stuff, or joining a real motorsport team.

[ascarracinguk]

i dunno, formula student is a good thing to have on your CV if for instance you have designed part of the car like the chassis, and you want to be going into that field as a career, BUT it MUST be supplimented with real life experience too...that way youve got the theory, design, manufacture and experience of running a car...it all helps. having said that, the amount of money spent of designing and building a formula student car, could be better spent in buying a formula ford and racing it with the students as mechanics.

or better still, go design and build, then race something like a formula Vee car.....you could do it a hell of a lot cheeper than most formula student budgets!

[bella]

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

In my experience, the people on the Formula Student teams are the people who like cars, but actually know nothing about them. The people at uni who do know enough to run/design/create the cars tend to not bother with it, and concentrate on learning useful stuff, or joining a real motorsport team.

this, totally the only thing it really teaches you is to work as a team which frankly, you should be able to do anyway by that stage.

it's probably worth looking at your own end goals in this sort of a choice too. if you want to work in "real" motorsport look for as much of an involvement in running current cars as soon as possible, be motivated and make your own opportunities. if you want to be involved in f1 design, then focus on getting top grades and fitting in any trackside stuff as and where you can.

you can't replicate turning up and speaking to teams at the circuit. a university may appear to provide good channels for placements but it's what you make of your own time and opportunities that'll really help you score a job afterwards.

let us know which one you choose as a second option!

[ss_collins]

every university has a formula student team.

Not true. Many do not.

In my experience, the people on the Formula Student teams are the people who like cars, but actually know nothing about them. The people at uni who do know enough to run/design/create the cars tend to not bother with it, and concentrate on learning useful stuff, or joining a real motorsport team.

Also not true - I have a list of people who judge and help out at FS, what they do for a living and whether they did FS. It is these days a fairly important part of a young engineers career. In my job I go around many teams and see lots and lots of ex FS team members - the good FS teams all have guys in race teams too. I think at one point that view was true but not any more.

student is a good thing to have on your CV if for instance you have designed part of the car like the chassis, and you want to be going into that field as a career, BUT it MUST be supplimented with real life experience too...that way youve got the theory, design, manufacture and experience of running a car...it all helps.

I could not agree with this more

he amount of money spent of designing and building a formula student car, could be better spent in buying a formula ford and racing it with the students as mechanics.

I could not disagree with this more. FS teaches project management, team work and proper engineering. Running a FF is good practice but perhaps more for a National Dip student aged 16/17

or better still, go design and build, then race something like a formula Vee car.....you could do it a hell of a lot cheeper than most formula student budgets!

No chance - to do a top Vee costs a lot more



There are many questions about this but the best at the moment are
Brookes
Hertfordshire
Swansea Met
Bath

[Revvedup917]

What a lovely thread ! My two cents on this as an on-placement overseas automobile engineering student at Coventry.

1. Most of the universities you have listed have open days where you can come, experience the university and most importantly talk to the engineering faculty in person about your hopes, ambitions and future goals. Even though the cost and practicality of doing so when living in a foreign country might seem prohibitive, the value of doing so can't be undermined. Choosing a university is a major decision, and doing so properly can allow you to enjoy the three-year resort of university life in a fruitful fashion.

2. Join and actively research the treasure troves - the British Library and the Institution of Mechanical Engineers library. Also, try and complement this by attending/ participating in race meetings and automobile events whenever you can. In particular go to the the classic and vintage sports car events, where you can learn a lot about how car design has evolved over the years, how components go wrong and how they get fixed as cars evolve.
Moving to Formula student, it is a great and relatively inexpensive way of designing your own racecar. Building a successful, innovative and race -winning Formula car is not only fulfilling, but is also a great opportunity to showcase your skills in front of industry stalwarts like Ross Brawn, who frequently judge these cars. Lastly and most importantly, get a placement !
University will only teach you how to use computer aided engineering tools, but it will rarely tell you how to apply it in a real working environment.

Best of Luck !



Hello fellas

Like Mr. Sergio Sousa I'm also looking for a university, but do my final year of automobile Engineering and not the first. So far
I have contacted Imperial and Caltech, only to discover that that none of doing transfers anymore for this academic year .The only other options that haven't been considered by me yet are the Ecole Polytechnique and the Turin Polytechniue. Could you somebody please tell me if I have any other options that I have missed out on >

[JohnD]

Sergio,
You said above that you can't come to the UK to visit any of the possible universities before you choose one. I think you should.
You will be investing about £30K (€50K) in a university course, plus living expences. Paying £50 (€60) for a return airfare, plus some rail fares is very little to help to make your choice correctly. I'm sure that the engineering depts. will be open to a prospective student's visit

And Central Lancashire is on the M6 motorway and the main West Coast railway line, so being "in the North" doesn't mean in the boondocks.

John

[GolddustMini]

Originally Posted by JohnD

Sergio,
You said above that you can't come to the UK to visit any of the possible universities before you choose one. I think you should.
You will be investing about £30K (€50K) in a university course, plus living expences. Paying £50 (€60) for a return airfare, plus some rail fares is very little to help to make your choice correctly. I'm sure that the engineering depts. will be open to a prospective student's visit

And Central Lancashire is on the M6 motorway and the main West Coast railway line, so being "in the North" doesn't mean in the boondocks.

John

got to agree with this, im biased as i went to central lancashire and live in preston, but I thoroughly enjoyed my time at UCLAN and found the staff fantastic and experiences I had during my time were brilliant.......but as i say im biased.

You need to find which course suits you, and that means going and discussing with the staff and visiting the facilities they offer.

[Bishop Ranter]

First of all it is important that I state that I am the Programme Director for the Masters in Motorsport Engineering and Management at Cranfield University. I established the course over ten years ago with my academic colleagues and industry contacts including the likes of Sir Jackie Stewart and Adrian Reynard. Cranfield has a track record of working with motorsport companies which stretches back over 30 years. Many of our graduates have gone onto highly successful careers in the motorsport sector. A key element of this success has been the individual thesis projects which they have undertaken, often in conjunction with leading motorsport companies, but importantly it is what the student brings to Cranfield in terms of their first degree and motorsport related experience. We expect undergraduates applying for the MSc course to have strong underpinnings in mechanical engineering. For UK based students this often means a first degree in mechanical engineering or a related subject from universities such as Imperial, Bath and Loughborough. EU based students are recruited from the top French, Spanish, Dutch and Italian universities. International students come from leading institutions in countries such as the USA and India. We sometimes take students with first degrees in motorsport engineering but not many. They have to convince us that they can cope with the demands of an intensive postgraduate course with a strong research emphasis. So my advice is for you to look beyond a number of the motorsport first degrees and aim for one of the leading UK universities. Formula Student experience can be useful but much better is to have worked in a motorsport team or a supply chain company, albeit on a voluntary basis. Pat Symonds, a Cranfield alumnus, likes to see CVs that contain evidence of motorsport activity beyond watching F1 on TV. You have to demonstrate genuine commitment. Getting involved in club level motorsport shows aptitude for a morsport related career. Should you decide to go down the path of choosing a motorsport engineering first degree then Oxford Brookes is probably the best. Good luck.

[devil_angel]

^^
Hello Bishop,
I've sent you a message regarding a few queries that I have. Please check it out if you get time.
Thank you.

[GolddustMini]

Originally Posted by Bishop Ranter

We sometimes take students with first degrees in motorsport engineering but not many. They have to convince us that they can cope with the demands of an intensive postgraduate course with a strong research emphasis.

I don't mean to ask prying question but why do you not appear to view the motorsports undergrad courses as not having the 'necessary research emphasis' whereas equivalent engineering courses have this?


I ask this because I'm genuinely interested, I work in education and I'm keen to know what certain establishments look for in prospective students.

[Sergio Sousa]

Thank you for the advices. I will study Motorsport Eng. at Oxford Brookes Uni.

JohnD and GolddustMini: the reason why I did not visit the Universities was that at the time when I created this topic, the deadline for choosing them was a couple of weeks away (if I am not mistaken). During that time I was not able to travel to the UK, because I had school tests.
In fact, I spent the month of August at Oxford Brookes University having lessons to improve my English and also visited Brunel University and had the chance to talk with Msc students while they were preparing their Formula Student car.

Bishop Ranter: Thank you for the feedback. I consider doing a Masters in your university after finishing my course at Brookes.

Hope one day I can meet each one of you.

[GolddustMini]

best of luck!

[Sergio Sousa]

Originally Posted by GolddustMini

best of luck!

Thank you

[Revvedup917]

Hello

While we we're on the subject, could somebody help me find an anwer to the question posed by myself sometime ago onthis very thread ?

From what I have gathered so far is that none of the major British universities do transfers into the final year if you have already completed two years at another institution.

Does anybody know of any other universities, apart from Caltech and Ecole that offer a good transfer program ? Having completed two years at Coventry and another at Delphi Diesel, I would greatly like to transfer to university of note which boastsof a dedicated machine design department.

Originally Posted by Revvedup917

Hello fellas

Like Mr. Sergio Sousa I'm also looking for a university, but dto o my final year of automobile Engineering and not the first. So far
I have contacted Imperial and Caltech, only to discover that that none of doing transfers anymore for this academic year .The only other options that haven't been considered by me yet are the Ecole Polytechnique and the Turin Polytechniue. Could you somebody please tell me if I have any other options that I have missed out on >

[littlefarny]

My 0.02 - I'd be wary about doing Motorsport Engineering at Brunel. I did it, and it's barely any different from Mechanical Engineering, only you're left with a more restricting qualification in the end.

Their module titles make it seem like it's a completely separate course, with lots of motorsport specific content, but (whilst I was there: Level 1 + 2) this is not really the case.

Obviously there are upsides and downsides to all courses, and I know people who have been on some fantastic placements over the past few years, but Brunel teaches you what being an everyday mechanical engineer is like, and unfortunately that doesn't sit well with most of us with dreams of changing tyres in F1.

If you want to learn how to design a fruit juicer, study Motorsport Engineering at Brunel.