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12 Dec 2011, 10:17 (Ref:2998705) | #26 | |||
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12 Dec 2011, 11:04 (Ref:2998719) | #27 | ||
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In fairness Dave if you post something on a discussion forum expect it to be discussed but I know where you are coming from.
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12 Dec 2011, 14:39 (Ref:2998807) | #28 | ||
Racer
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The 888 proposal was overturned by paid up club members who had a democratic right to turn up and vote. It was ignored by the committee who broke company law!!! Are you saying those people that voted had no right to? Who says I am not interested? If I was not interested I would not have replied in the first instance. Ask yourself why the popularity of the series have dropped in the last 10 years. Could it be that people wanted to run cars that were as period therefore re-creating that element of racing but find with the changes they can no longer compete on a level playing field? That is certainly the case with myself, my son & other friends/customers. As Al states, this is a discussion forum. Am I not allowed to express an opinion? |
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12 Dec 2011, 16:51 (Ref:2998840) | #29 | ||
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I kinda see where you are coming from, there are about 4 cars I can mention that I regularly used to beat and who are now beating me most running in Class G (or invitation class) with Toyos another on a lower profile list 1a and yet another with the wrong engine. In fact towards the end of the season there were more invite cars than legit and I thought at one stage I was one of the only legal car out there!! At least now they will be legal, still beating me but I do have the option to run the other rubber. BTW I was a clear 2 seconds a lap quicker on Kumhos around Snett than the Dunlops, thats how much you are giving away, maybe more. I will pass a word of warning on though, get yer sumps and oiling systems sorted to avoid surge before you upgrade to sticker rubber as it could end in tears. It happened to me in both my cars funny enough on the same Kumhos and at Snett. I have since upgrade the sumps and systems on both cars and no problems now.
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You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter! |
12 Dec 2011, 17:42 (Ref:2998858) | #30 | |||
Racer
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People now have a choice/variety to choose from which will suit different people for different reasons, they can use what supplier they like unlike being held to ransome for those concrete dunlops, and sizes may be cheaper for some cars than others by different tyre manufacturer? Group 1 cars ran slicks anyway so we have never used the "right" tyre anyway if people want to argue? |
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12 Dec 2011, 20:39 (Ref:2998914) | #31 | ||
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Interesting point
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You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter! |
12 Dec 2011, 23:45 (Ref:2998980) | #32 | ||
Racer
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4 cars a Majority??? How many in the race????????????????/ What is totally illogical with your argument is that nobody wins but everybody loses. You may go faster but so does everybody else who fits the tyres. You answered the reasoning why you wanted toyos in your comment 'concrete Dunlops' Most people were happy with them, they were durable long lasting and thus inexpensive. I go back to my comment that the move to these tyres was led by a selfish few who care not about the rest of the club membership & are only interested in making THEIR cars go faster. David, it seems that you are unhappy with a democratic vote and my right of reply because they are at odds with your personal opinion. Last edited by ken clarke; 12 Dec 2011 at 23:50. |
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13 Dec 2011, 08:57 (Ref:2999074) | #33 | |||
Racer
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The durable dunlop argument is rubbish as the people that could afford it were still changing them every race, i assure you... leaving the rest still struggling. Even last year i can think of 7-8 74/83 cars that dissapeared to other clubs because of tyre options. People were getting fed up of the over priced dunlops knowing that the club had no longer any financial help from dunlop, so why the hang up with them? If they were just £20 cheaper per tyre we probably wouldnt be having this conversation. I just cant see the big problem with a tyre change, these things happen. There must be other clubs out there doing the same, i wonder if they have this problem. |
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13 Dec 2011, 09:24 (Ref:2999081) | #34 | ||
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Are you saying that 7/8 cars went to other series purely because of tyres. I find this very hard to believe as I said previously there is no gain as all of their fellow competitors will be on the same rubber. I suggest there were other considerations as well as tyres. Anyone who has run these tyres for any length of time on a properly set up car for those tyres will tell you that they work best when they are very worn, with just the 2 centre grooves & the rest of the tyre 'slick'. Looking around the paddock at meetings I have attended, most peoples tyres are worn badly & incorrectly thus requiring an early change. My Dunlops have much life left in them after 4 years, I will probably have to change them due to age not wearing out but are still competetive. If you & others were genuinely concerned about cost & not speed, why not ban list 1b tyres? I can go to my local tyre depot & buy suitable tyres for my car for less than £30 each & they will last a season! I think we all know the answer to that. David, you know this is not just about a tyre change but a steady erosion of the regulations just to suit a few selfish people who want to go faster. As I said in my opening post, 'another nail in the coffin of the CTCRC. Just start a new club, The modified saloon car club springs to mind because that is what you are now running, not CLASSIC TOURING CARS! |
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13 Dec 2011, 09:46 (Ref:2999091) | #35 | |||
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13 Dec 2011, 12:10 (Ref:2999137) | #36 | ||
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Meant to be 1b! When I first started modifing my 2nd gen camaro to race with CTCRC or CSCC (Classic Saloon Car Club) as it was known back then and a much better name and I believe was the one biggest single mistake made by the then committee IMHO, the name change and loosing the web address to Classic Sports Car Club (what a gift on a plate for a fledgling club!) whoever did that should feel most embarassed about it now. I remember going to the website (CSCC) regularly then one day a totally different club appeared and I have to say as they were doing similar things I thought they were one and the same till I looked into it. I am sure I wasnt alone and wonder how many drivers that lost the club. Anyhow I bought brand new Hoosiers after talking with Ken only to find I couldnt use them several years later when I was ready to race the car so they went in the skip such is life!
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13 Dec 2011, 12:36 (Ref:2999145) | #37 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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There's nothing wrong with changing the rules but if those changes move away from the intent of the championships then it really means the original ethos has gone. The changes to the regs have gone so far from what Group 1 (or in fact 1.5) was that it seems daft to even call the Pre 83s Classic Group 1, because it isn't. I recall Jeff Allam being disqualified from a Brands Hatch round in 1979 because of his TCAs (I do stand to be corrected on this).
Whilst there may be arguments re things like improved brakes which have always been permitted, it isn't that far off what the teams were doing in the 70s. I recall Gerry M telling me about the use of Granada brakes on Capris. But there are already series and championships for these cars that run perspex, stickier tyres, plastic panels etc. It may therefore be argued that the new regs are only going to encourage the existing driver base to migrate elsewhere, rather than the reverse, simply because the grids are bigger and their cars fit (after the new changes). The thing about the original CSCC was its uniqueness. It had its basis in the BTCC of previous years it wasn't trying to be the fastest classic or historic touring car championship, it was simply aimed at providing reasonably priced races for like minded individuals. Don't think I'm getting all misty eyed, because I'm not. I just thought I'd add some perspective to the discussion. I already have enough places to race. |
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13 Dec 2011, 14:27 (Ref:2999180) | #38 | ||
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No the club never had Yokohama as a control tyre. Up until 1991 tyres were free, lists 1a or 1b. In 1991 the club took the decision to use the Dunlop D83 & D84J as a control tyre in order to stop spiralling costs due to a tyre war. Some affluent competitors would test many types of tyre thus giving them an advantage. that 1991 decision worked well for 20 years, you obviously think the time is right for another 'tyre war'. I presume the decision to run perspex/lexan makes it compulsory to be run as I can see no other justification for it apart from going faster. |
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13 Dec 2011, 15:03 (Ref:2999195) | #39 | ||
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Theres no issue tweaking the regs to attract more cars for one off races. The issue is, the fast people will always accept spending more than the next guy goes hand in hand with being at the sharp end. Look at most championships, Masters, HSCC etc, the quick cars are the ones which have had more money spent on testing and development within the rules. nothing has changed in that respect.
The acid test will be the first CTCRC race weekend of 2012....and I've got no doubt that the grids will be better subscribed than others! |
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13 Dec 2011, 16:08 (Ref:2999219) | #40 | |||
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Last edited by Al Weyman; 13 Dec 2011 at 16:13. |
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13 Dec 2011, 16:40 (Ref:2999234) | #41 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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Fair comment Al. Like I said I was just adding some perspective.
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I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
13 Dec 2011, 16:46 (Ref:2999237) | #42 | |||
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13 Dec 2011, 19:11 (Ref:2999300) | #43 | ||
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Al, my whole point is that IMHO the changes were not necessarily for the benefit of the club, the changes were pushed through by a selfish few who wish to go faster. As Pete says, we have plenty of other places to race . |
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13 Dec 2011, 19:43 (Ref:2999322) | #44 | ||
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Well personally I dont think so, I cannot even remember who proposed them now. I do know however both were voted on and voted in by a substantial majority as it happens albiet slightly changed to exclude windscreen which must still be glass as before. We will see how it all pans out.
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