Speed differentials in Club racing. Split from CTCRC thread

[graham bahr]

i too am very much in the former camp, i do everything myself because i have to from a financial aspect, paying someone would severely limit my ability to compete, but i also do everything myself because i like the challenge of engineering stuff my self, in reality i know im ok as a driver and nothing more and my because of my skill levels, knowledge and approach to building things my car also is only ok, all im really looking for is to enjoy a good race. in my time (all be it quite a few years ago) i have won a couple of races, one had a very poor entry and my car was clearly the fastest and odds on favourite, so i dont really regard that as anything of a win, and another my slick shod saloon was against a hoard of caterhams on everyday road tyres, yes i won but did i really? not in my mind looking back, had a of won driving a similar caterham or then they similar saloons then yes it would of been a win

i far more feel like i've won if i manage to do like i did last year against bill richards, i dont think anyone would disagree that bill had the better car and id say is a better driver, but we a dammed good 8 lap scrap raced inches apart every single corner but never touched, we were racing for middle of the class, mid pack, but even though we both had ZERO chance of wining it was a fantastic race that i will probably never forget, that my friends is what club motorsport should be about

[Stacy]

Fully supportive of the lower classes, Gawd Bless Em and all that.

Equally I understand that once you've tasted the honey of major horsepower if it's within your means to continue to enjoy it why would you give it up?

It is clearly bogus to assert that racing is in someway automatically less close the more horsepower you have - that is settled by other variables, such as the number and quality of the opposition. I have seen many hopelessly uncompetitive cars in the lower classes, and many very competitive higher class examples prepared at little cost.

Ultimately there is a core of very quick higher class drivers and cars kicking around right now that if you are a racer than a driver it might appeal to be measured against, for better or worse.

S.

[graham bahr]

part the problem is human nature, a lot of the really quick car/driver combinations try to avoid each other

now it wouldnt take two much of a stretch of the imagination to picture a couple of championship which both have very fast and much slower cars in them, now if you could rearrange things so one had all the fast cars and the other all the slow cars you would have two grids evenly matched across the board, but that will never happen whilst a lot of people try look for an easy(er) win

[Stacy]

Sure. If organisers could be persuaded not to fiddle with their regs every year to provide a stable target, and we could unify the regs across clubs, and if there were enough super saloons to fill the multiple available grids that could be the case, but then if the Queen had balls she'd be the King. That doesn't happen. There will always be series with performance discrepancies, and you could probably think of more than one yourself.

Just to respond specifically to the unmistakeable sound of an axe being ground, if I was looking for the easy win I'd probably, on balance, /not/ pick the one housing the likes of the North West Saloon/Sports champion, the Castle Combe monsters, Joss' Thor, Australian V8s and more. In a series where you don't get to hide behind your car if you're in front, you're doing something right..

S.

[joss Ronchetti]

Yes Stacy it is looking like the best season ever for CT.
This one championship appears to break the trend then, At last we seem to have one National Club Saloon Car Championship with most of the quickest Club Saloon Car/Driver combinations being drawn to it. Many Champions are hoping to appear on the grid, to get the chance to race up against the other quickest club saloon car racing pairings with frontrunners lapping quicker than the fastest BTCC Cars
Pretty sure Tim Lewis is a past Alfa champion in his mad Supercharged Alfa who qualified at Snett, but had a problem and did not race. Multi Khumo Champion, Garrie Whittaker with a new M3 on the way, Crag Davies, ex Modprod Champion in his ex Chris Hodgetts RS500, your good self, multi ex champion, Nick Williamson, ex Modprod Champion in his Escort Cossie has promised to appear in some due to his Motor Bike Racing commitments this season, and the Mighty Falcon of Andy Robinson, previous race winner in CT and the recent Eurosaloons at Brands GP will be back at Silverstone. The Fletcher/Froggat Scooby Clinic Scoobies, Adrian Hawkins Alfa, will also be joining us again with quite a few others
We could do with some more regular Seat Cupra Cups & Supertourers in the mix too.

[Stacy]

Joss mate, less of the "ex" and none of the "past" if you will. All sounds a bit yesterday's news, and as my Saturday night dinner guests will tell you I'm still firmly trading with it in the present day.

[Lancsbreaker]

Anybody have any thoughts on the wisdom (or otherwise) of having cars on slicks and cars on List 1A/1B tyres sharing a grid........this happens in the ARCA series, and arguably contributed to the first corner shunt at Silverstone last week, in greasy conditions, which took out about 8 or 9 cars?

Its always seemed a recipe for disaster to have such a spread of grip.....

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Anybody have any thoughts on the wisdom (or otherwise) of having cars on slicks and cars on List 1A/1B tyres sharing a grid........this happens in the ARCA series, and arguably contributed to the first corner shunt at Silverstone last week, in greasy conditions, which took out about 8 or 9 cars?

Its always seemed a recipe for disaster to have such a spread of grip.....

if you were talking about races with professional drivers then a would agree a possible recipe for disaster, but in a club series theres as much variation between drivers as there is of cars and tyres so i dont think it plays a significant part,

lets look at it another way, whats the difference between a grid where some are on slicks and some on road tyres, compared to a grid where some are on slicks, some intermediates and some on wets?

in fact the later will have an even bigger difference in grip levels, not to mention some that race on slicks choose to use 1b tyres in damp mildly wet conditions

[Minicross424]

I dont mind a good mid to rear field battle as long as I DO have some one to race with.
In my second race on Saturday all the quick cars shot off leaving me no one to race with and having to endure being lapped by the leader twice at Lydden!
Now wondering why im bothering.

[Al Weyman]

Well we just completed a 20 minute and a 40 minute race in Bernie's V8's in varying conditions and am pleased to say there wasnt a single collision or serious car damaging off the whole weekend, as I was in one of the slower cars yes it did take some mirror watching and yes I did back off the throttle several times to let lapping cars through and not spoil their race as it takes two to tango IMHO and even if the Blue book says this and that at then end of the day the lapped car car and should make it as easier for the lapper to continue his race as possible, that way everyone finishes in one piece.

[graham bahr]

yep gotta say im in agreement with you al, generally when being lapped i will vary my line a little just to allow the faster car a bit more space

[andy robinson]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Well we just completed a 20 minute and a 40 minute race in Bernie's V8's in varying conditions and am pleased to say there wasnt a single collision or serious car damaging off the whole weekend, as I was in one of the slower cars yes it did take some mirror watching and yes I did back off the throttle several times to let lapping cars through and not spoil their race as it takes two to tango IMHO and even if the Blue book says this and that at then end of the day the lapped car car and should make it as easier for the lapper to continue his race as possible, that way everyone finishes in one piece.

spot on Al I wish they were all like you, a bit of thought & racing room is all that is needed by both parties, ive been in both camps been lapped in the fiesta & lapping in the falcon
In the fiesta i would always indicate or point out of the window & leave space but not swerve out of the way of faster cars as this is as bad as turning in on them,
In the falcon I have my lights on & pray they have seen me, but pressume they havent, most dangerous situations occur when ive got a car right on my tail, dont want to lift & am coming onto several slower cars battling it out, it normally not the slower car @ the rear but his pal just in front who hasn't seen me that's the worry
vidulance and common sence go a long way here

[Al Weyman]

And IMHO Andy is exactly the scenario in the Biggles/Bly incident (although not wishing to go back to that in detail) when they came across the two battling Escorts, 5 seconds later all cars would have been on the main straight and nothing would have happened.