What's happening to motorsport?

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I realise all that Claire I am not stutid (don't answer that lol). My response is in that the CTCRC has the same right to promote their new series as all the others have.

Absolutely, therefore you have gone full circle because , if you say they can promote their new series, you can't then have a moan at others for doing it, you can't then say "depleated grids are caused by too many series" because people in glass houses should not throw stones.


Therefore surely this has now reached the point where its just going round and around and a bit like me on Sunday, aint improving! (Actually I did, I got down to 2.06 which ainyt bad considering I was bad! Ha ha )

Seriously I am all for suggesting new ways forward but just complaining about tyhe status quo (or any other band) doesn't and won't change the status quo

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

Therefore surely this has now reached the point where its just going round and around and a bit like me on Sunday, aint improving! (Actually I did, I got down to 2.06 which ainyt bad considering I was bad! Ha ha )

O/T Actually looking at the lap analysis you got down to 2:04.853 - time set on lap 45 which must have been you in the car - very good!

[Al Weyman]

I was only having a moan as response to others having a moan about CTCRC's plans. For what its worth whether I carry on racing or not all depends on the business that comes through the door and I suspect that a lot of others are in the same boat. I never meant to be disrespectful to the poster who said he got into debt to race but IMHO I personally think thats the same as borrowing money to go on holiday and is folly and dangerous to ones future well being so the bottom line again in my opinion is the sport will basically sink or swim based on the participants disposable income and if and when the economy picks up so will the grid sizes, just a bit of help to keep it going till then from the track owners etc would be handy.

[Peter Mallett]

It's not just the CTCRC Al.

[historic racer]

Just seen that today at BARC Oulton meeting by combining three series/champs they had a magnificent seven entry's. Head out the sand time !!!!

[Al Weyman]

Absolutely I could see it coming which is one reason why I didnt pull all the glass windows out of my 72 Chevy or fit fibre glass panels and sticky tyres, at least I am hoping it will still have places it can run if worse comes to worse, big shame they were two great championships.

[terence]

Seems to me the best action to take is vote with your feet,if clubs go under,or feel thats the way they are going,perhaps then you might get some action in the UK?

[Al Weyman]

Its a good club run by decent people they have other championships still going strong its just the two for thr pre 74's and pre 83's that are suffering. I think it is as much to do with the rocketing value of cars from this era as much as anything else. If you build an old RS2000 for example 10 or 12 years ago and it stands you in 4 or 5 grand then suddenly it becomes worth 10 times that what do you do? Risk a 30k machine on a club championship which is a bit down the pecking order or cash in, I think this is a major contributing factor to what is now happening in some spheres of motorsport. Even my 2nd Gen car is now coming into the frame, a mate of mine just got 17k for a road car and it was nice but not perfect! Maybe I'll sell up and do a budget 2 litre for their new series be a whole lot less grief thats for sure!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by historic racer

Just seen that today at BARC Oulton meeting by combining three series/champs they had a magnificent seven entry's. Head out the sand time !!!!

Would that by any chance be the same meeting at which one championship had seven reserves?

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Seems to me the best action to take is vote with your feet,if clubs go under,or feel thats the way they are going,perhaps then you might get some action in the UK?

As I said before it seems many have already. Intersting about the 7 reserves, it seems to me the less restrictions and rules in a series and the more of a catch all they are then the more successful they are especially if allowing stuff like Caterhams

[historic racer]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Would that by any chance be the same meeting at which one championship had seven reserves?

And the point of your remark is ????????????
Im not talking about the championship you refer to, kindly apply yourself to what championships I have commented on.

[indigorallye]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Would that by any chance be the same meeting at which one championship had seven reserves?

Just for interest, it would have been more than seven but the MSA stipulate a 20% rule. ie 20% of the max starters can be taken on as reserves. CNC is a pretty dam good championship.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by historic racer

And the point of your remark is ????????????

Balance.

If you want to confine yourself to CTCRC championships, the other races had entries (numbers from the programme) of 14, 29 & 21. The race with 7 entries (8 in the programme) originally included a class for the Alfa Romeo Owners' Club Series. For some reason that didn't happen - if it had, the numbers would probably have been in the low 20s. We do have to accept that a one-day meeting at Oulton on a Saturday may not be very attractive to some drivers, particularly so late in the season, & I'm sure several drivers would have been only too happy to have been there had their cars been drivable!

Out of interest the Caterham classes had 14, 28 & 17 entries, the CNC Heads 41.

Head in the sand? Not from where I stand!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

it seems to me the less restrictions and rules in a series and the more of a catch all they are then the more successful they are especially if allowing stuff like Caterhams

The CNC Heads Championship does just that - yesterday's race included everything from an almost bog-standard XR2 to an ex-DTM Astra! A key factor in the success of this (& no doubt other similar championships) is summed up on BARC NW's website:

"The regulations have been carefully developed over many years and are famously stable so that cars can remain affordably competitive."

Originally Posted by indigorallye

Just for interest, it would have been more than seven but the MSA stipulate a 20% rule. ie 20% of the max starters can be taken on as reserves. CNC is a pretty dam good championship.

I wondered why I didn't see your name in the programme!

. . . and yes, it's a good championship - one of my favourites!

[simes43]

When did Harry Hill become CoC for the BTCC support
races?

And when did punting the guy off in front to win not
merit 3 points and disqualification?

[kipper]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

The race with 7 entries (8 in the programme) originally included a class for the Alfa Romeo Owners' Club Series. For some reason that didn't happen - if it had, the numbers would probably have been in the low 20s.

Perhaps on a slightly pedantic note, by my reckoning the Alfa Owners' Club Series has average 9-10 starters this year, so low 20s may be a bit optimistic.

The point regarding balance, is of course, unchallenged by this.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by kipper

Perhaps on a slightly pedantic note, by my reckoning the Alfa Owners' Club Series has average 9-10 starters this year, so low 20s may be a bit optimistic.

I worked off the number at Mallory, 15 if I remember correctly.

[Al Weyman]

So what happened to the Alfas, I assume they are all upset again about something, last time it was being put in with the faster Pre 93's what was it this time? The CTCRC committee tried hard to make this happen including space on their stand at Race Retro so I dunno what the problem is, is it Oulton is not seen as a good enough track or what maybe someone with inside knowledge could enlighten us? Last year we were meant to have a load of VW Beetles in but they also let the club down,. quite frankly I am confused and don't know what you have to do to please these people why make all noises then just not show up.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

So what happened to the Alfas, I assume they are all upset again about something, last time it was being put in with the faster Pre 93's what was it this time? The CTCRC committee tried hard to make this happen including space on their stand at Race Retro so I dunno what the problem is, is it Oulton is not seen as a good enough track or what maybe someone with inside knowledge could enlighten us? Last year we were meant to have a load of VW Beetles in but they also let the club down,. quite frankly I am confused and don't know what you have to do to please these people why make all noises then just not show up.

For reasons to which I was not privy, but which are apparent if you read the Series regs, when the Alfa series was set up this year, the main class in the Series - the "Classics" were only scheduled to have four races - not including Oulton...the majority of Alfa racers who would sensibly have been included in the pre-93 already race with ARCA, and I'm not aware of any AROC member who have raced in the pre-93 races this year, as the "Classics" criteria were flexed to allow the later models to be included - so I was amazed to see that the programme - or at least TSL's version of it, included reference to AROC series.

Not entirely sure where Kipper gets his "9 or 10" figures from, unless he includes Thruxton in his figures...entries in the three races which actually ran are 11, 8 and 14 actual starters, IIRC - although second races of double-headers might of course have had less starters.

[Al Weyman]

Fair enough if not programmed in and probable a mix up between the two branches of BARC.

[historic racer]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Balance.

If you want to confine yourself to CTCRC championships, the other races had entries (numbers from the programme) of 14, 29 & 21. The race with 7 entries (8 in the programme) originally included a class for the Alfa Romeo Owners' Club Series. For some reason that didn't happen - if it had, the numbers would probably have been in the low 20s. We do have to accept that a one-day meeting at Oulton on a Saturday may not be very attractive to some drivers, particularly so late in the season, & I'm sure several drivers would have been only too happy to have been there had their cars been drivable!

Out of interest the Caterham classes had 14, 28 & 17 entries, the CNC Heads 41.

Head in the sand? Not from where I stand!

I WAS TALKING ABOUT ONE RACE NOT THE OTHERS WHICH WERE WELL SUPPORTED ( SPECSAVERS MAY HELP )

[kipper]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Not entirely sure where Kipper gets his "9 or 10" figures from, unless he includes Thruxton in his figures...entries in the three races which actually ran are 11, 8 and 14 actual starters, IIRC - although second races of double-headers might of course have had less starters.

In short, TSL (Mallory was the only AROC meeting I attended. According to the site, 10 cars started each of the Silverstone races; seven cars started the first Brands race, whilst six started the second; and 14 and 12 cars started the two Mallory races. Ignoring Thruxton, this makes an average of somewhere between nine and 10 cars.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by kipper

In short, TSL (Mallory was the only AROC meeting I attended. According to the site, 10 cars started each of the Silverstone races; seven cars started the first Brands race, whilst six started the second; and 14 and 12 cars started the two Mallory races. Ignoring Thruxton, this makes an average of somewhere between nine and 10 cars.

Whereas I was at two of the races, and I know at Silverstone that there were more entries than starters in both races as mechanical glitches prevented all taking the start - I think you have to accept that at all double-header events there is a strong probability that some of the first-race competitors may not be able to take the start of the second race - as I commented in my original post.......

Anyway - about the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin.....