Fisi / Sato

[Peter Mallett]

But why not a Macaroon? Or even a Williams? Not because of nationality. It's because he's a bit mediocre. This year is a case in point.

[Glen]

Mediocre? Are we talking about the same driver?! He's saved Jordan's bacon with six points so far, which is more than the highly rated Heidfeld in the highly rated Sauber.

Button is a good driver, as is evidenced by his performance relative to Trulli (also very well thought of) - but Fisi made Button look very poor for a while last year. Flav would have loved to kept hold of him, I'm sure, but the world of F1 employment contracts is a strange one.

[Peter Mallett]

Yep. Mediocre and Fissichella are two words that go together for me. Six points still don't make him a top driver.

[Glen]

Still six more than ANY other Honda driver - six more than the only other WDC in the field - better than either of the Saubers - better than HHF - better than Trulli has managed in the very decent Renault. True, he had a rotten weekend, but honestly... the pressure must hurt after a while in such an uncompetitive car.

Can't put too much into stats, I know, but... He is the highest scoring Bridgestone driver, bar the Ferrari pair.

Sometimes dissappointing I could live with, but mediocre just doesn't fit at all.

[Peter Mallett]

OK then, disapointingly mediocre. How's that? The Bridgestone tyre thing adds a new dimension though. Those tyres are made for the Ferrari, so if any team is going to benefit they need a Ferrari to as well. Then the reference to JV is also relevant. Another driver whom I've never really rated. He's being out performed by his team mate nad deservedly so.F or the record my top drivers out there today in no particular order are:

DC (God I hate to say that)
MS
RB (Don't think too much of him either)
KR
RS (But must do better)
JPM (But not that close to the top)

[BootsOntheSide]

My top 6 would have to be Michael, Monty, Fisi, Rubens, DC and Button, with Kimi and Webber the msot promising other than Jenson, and guys like Burti, Justin Wilson, Da Matta and Bourdais are all more capable than several on the grid.

[Sato san]

How anyone can say that Fisi is not a top driver is beyond me . OK , he's not at the top must he must be in the top 6 ?

[Rambo]

What, you think Ferrari wouldn't want a fast Italian in the car???? Eh???

[Sato san]

Ferrari have said in the past that they dont really want to sign a Italian . Can you imagine the uproar if team orders went the wrong way for a Italian driver in a Ferrari . Maybe then , some of the Tifosi would turn there backs on the team and get behind their driver .

When was the last time Ferrari employed a Italian as a full time race driver ? , i think it was Capelli back in 92 , but they sacked him after half a season as he has poor luck and never really found the speed he showed when he had raced for Leyton House the previous year . Larini had a few races with them when Alesi part broke his neck in 94 , but that was on a temporary basis only .

[Rambo]

Well, I didn't know that. I'd have thought it would be great for them. Of course, should you fail (Prost-Renault) the backlash can be terrible, especially with these fickle foreigners...

Still, when was the last time there was a really good Italian driver? Remember the crowd reaction to Alesi, and he wasn't even really Italian!

I'd like to see Fizzy in a really good car - hell, I'd have liked to have seen him in this year's Renault, but he got frustrated and jumped ship just when things were coming good. Such is life...

[senna12]

Originally posted by Rambo

I'd like to see Fizzy in a really good car - hell, I'd have liked to have seen him in this year's Renault, but he got frustrated and jumped ship just when things were coming good. Such is life...

I think in Fisi's case, it was a monetary thing. He had an escalating contract ( I read that it increased at 1 million per season), that was to pay something like 8 million, and Flavio did not want to pay him that kind of money.

There was no doubt he was frustrated, but Bennetton had made significant inprovments in the last quarter of '01, and I'm pretty sure he didn't want to leave, at least, that's what he was saying.

[neilap]

If this were any other form of racing we could easily argue Fisi's ability and why he drives for the teams that he does. Maybe he does not go for team orders. Maybe he is too opinionated for Ferrari. F1 has so much politics that it is much easier to find the poor drivers than the really good ones. I say the best way to judge a driver is by his teammate. Sato is not that experienced so it is tough to use him. Fisi's past though shows that he is at least better than RS and JB. Sato could come good at the end of the season. Maybe then the comparison will be more valid.

As for JV I feel that the car reaches its limits much quicker than he does. So if both drivers can push the car to its limit that will make them look the same. I feel that if OP and JV were both in Ferrari JV would win more races.

[Sato san]

So then , maybe Fisi not driving for a top team is his own fault if he or his manager is pricing him out of the market .

I really dont understand this money lark , Surley it would be better to drive for Renualt for 1M$ rather than Jordan for 3M$ . If it came down to money then it is his own fault .

That is one critism that ive always had of Damon Hill. I know Ron Dennis didnt really 100% want him to drive for mclaren , but he did offer him a deal in 98 where he would be on 0.5m$ but made his money up with bonus's for race wins etc . Now i would have thought that a racer wants to win more than anything else , and if he's already a multi millionaire then why go some where else for more money but having to chance of winning ?

I like Hill , and i like Fisi alot , but if its down to money more than winning races , well its there own fault .

[Rambo]

The same can be said about Villeneuve, couldn't it? He's still in F1, with that same sh*t team all because he wants a big paycheck. He cares more about money than winning.

Sad state of affairs.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Sato san

That is one critism that ive always had of Damon Hill. I know Ron Dennis didnt really 100% want him to drive for mclaren , but he did offer him a deal in 98 where he would be on 0.5m$

Not saying your wrong Sato, but i think Damon's biggest gripe about the McLaren affair was that Ron only wanted to pay him £0.5m but was paying Mika £5M, at this time, Damon was WDC and Mika had yet to win a race!

As Mansell said back in '92, the money the team pay the driver is a representation of how seriously they take that driver!

[Sato san]

You are right Mr V ,

but i still have no simpathy for any driver on this front .

A race car driver should want to win races , which should be more important than any money he can be paid , especially when he is already a multi-millionaire .

They got into the sport because of the Passion they had for it , to get to the top level of the sport . So why suddenly say " im not driving for less than $???

I agree they have to earn money , but as a massive Mansell Fan also , i always thought Mansell was wrong to turn down drives just because of Dollars.

[Mr V]

It's a tough one to call Sato isn't it, i suppose the question would have to be.........."would you do your job for less money than someone else, especially if they had less experience or whatever?"

I agree with what your saying, and i, like you, have no doubt in my mind that Damon could have gone on to great success in the '98 McLaren, and thus made alot of money out of it, but at the end of the day, he was still starting on a £4.5m deficit to Mika who wasn't as successful as Damon at that point.

As i say..........touch one to call.

[Sato san]

i dont think so , Being a formula one race driver is not just a job is it . I bet your job is not your passion , did you go to bed every night when you was young dreaming about being what you are now .

Winning is more important than money !

[senna12]

Originally posted by Sato san


Winning is more important than money !

And winning on a consistent basis will give you the opportunity to make much more money than you ever would behind the wheel. Even Shumi's endorsements pay more than Ferrari. It could be the same for anyone with the ability, and a good manager.

[neilap]

I agree that winning is more important. However some of these guys are used to a certain lifestyle. If it means that they have to sacrifice that to drive for Ferrari then it might be in their best interest to attempt to build a team (JV). He is already a WDC. As for Fisi I can only assume he would be offered a rediculously low sum. JPM came here racing for very little compared to what he could have made in CART. He even said that if it was about money he would have stayed here.
If Fisi has the attitude that JV does he will lose out. If he wants to be a winner and WDC anytime soon he may have to take a huge cut in pay just till he can prove his worth in a winning team. Williams, Mac and Ferrari can be really arrogant and picky if they want to. Almost evey driver on the grid wants to be in one on them.

[mac]

From what I understand, Flavio's contract offer to Fisi was downright insulting. It was basically Briatore's way of saying we want Trulli in your seat next year.

I think it's a combination of timing and nationality (and bad luck) that has not seen Fisi get a proper chance.

And Peter, what's it like living in that negative, pessimistic world of yours?

Do you think any drivers are good? Or are the top of the heap merely the least ****?

[freud]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
Yep. Mediocre and Fissichella are two words that go together for me. Six points still don't make him a top driver.

Not a bad point. Though I can see the italian/TGFce connection which obviously is a hinderance to get the Ferrari seat. If Fisi is that damn good, why Williams or Mclarens were never interested in him?