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30 Mar 2013, 13:19 (Ref:3226864) | #76 | ||
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By the way, Mark - I agree on your specific point on aerodynamics, but then that wasn't what prompted my comment.
Although I'm not sure where the balance should be between less aero (and fewer resultant gimmicks) and the preservation of F1's position at the technological pinnacle of the sport. I'm not even sure whether they are mutually exclusive. |
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31 Mar 2013, 15:48 (Ref:3227252) | #77 | ||
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I don't mind at all the high technology even the high cost ( I am an engineer by trade) to make this cars the ultimate racing vehicle. What I am worried is that supposedly the ultimate best drivers in the world aren't showing there skills to drive this cars. This sophisticated technology with the high costs goes out the door when you bolt a set of tyres that can't even last half a race so then drivers have to drive conservetely. This goes for the gimmicks like DRS and even KERS. KERS is push to pass button. Hamilton said it himself when he drove Senna's car around Silverstone "wow these cars must have been amazing to drive"
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31 Mar 2013, 16:17 (Ref:3227265) | #78 | |
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DRS is spreading. They even like the squidgy tyres!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106455 |
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31 Mar 2013, 16:36 (Ref:3227273) | #79 | |||
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31 Mar 2013, 17:16 (Ref:3227290) | #80 | |||
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DTM cars are high aero cars aren't they? Maybe that's why. |
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31 Mar 2013, 17:19 (Ref:3227292) | #81 | |||
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So you disagree then? Some races in that era were processions because the performance disparity front of grid to rear of grid was enormous. Partly that anyway. So I take it from your example, that you think races would be processional today if the cars had half or less the aero? Can you honestly say that? With today's reliability and closely matched drivers? |
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31 Mar 2013, 17:55 (Ref:3227305) | #82 | |||
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Those cars in the '70s and early '80s had nothing like the aero packages we see on a modern F1 car, so yes I still think we'd see processional racing. |
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31 Mar 2013, 18:15 (Ref:3227312) | #83 | ||
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31 Mar 2013, 18:18 (Ref:3227314) | #84 | |||
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The 80s had some damn good races and seasons, especially the early-mid 80s. Ironically, a lot of the time this was with softer tires, however you didn't get the kind of marbles you do today and could overtake offline and in other weird areas. You could overtake even on those horrific American street circuits like Caesar's Palace and Detroit. Even Hungary had some fantastic races. |
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1 Apr 2013, 03:22 (Ref:3227453) | #85 | |||
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the marbles are ridiculous though, being able to pass doesn't work when there is no where to pass. |
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1 Apr 2013, 04:13 (Ref:3227463) | #86 | |||
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1 Apr 2013, 09:16 (Ref:3227500) | #87 | |||
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Of those races you watched, how often did you note that guys couldn't pass (even though they were significantly faster) because of dirty air affecting the aero? |
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1 Apr 2013, 09:35 (Ref:3227502) | #88 | |||||||
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Getting abck to bjohnsonsmith's point about processional races occurring in the days when the cars weren't as reliant on the aero for their performance. I would've thought that was because they field would've been able to sort itself out. Faster cars would've been able to get past relatively easier and take their "natural" position. For years I was aware of John Watson's record setting win at Longbeach (starting 22nd, the deepest anyone has ever won a gp). I was able to see the whole race on youtube, however many years ago, and what struck me was how processional that race was! Wattie was in the lead half way through, It wasn't much different to starting the race on pole and leading the whole way. |
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1 Apr 2013, 10:19 (Ref:3227512) | #89 | ||
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It was a long time ago but what I remember was the field spreading out and the race turning into a procession, with attrition being at the core and playing a large part in the outcome of the race.
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1 Apr 2013, 11:07 (Ref:3227520) | #90 | |||
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But it's quite likely in my view that no "gubbins" are necessary if aero was addressed so that cars could at least have chances to overtake on track. With the reliability of modern cars, the tiny spread of skill difference across the grid, if much lower aero performance was decreed, I reckon F1 racing would improve as a spectacle, as well as retaining other interesting elements such as strategy. By the way, one "gubbin" I would still want to see, would be a max pit crew of 6 for pit stops. I don't have a problem with high aero performance in long-distance sports cars, for Le Mans etc, but I do with single-seaters, and cars for shorter distance races. If someone like Hamilton drove a Le Mans type car round Brands Hatch GP circuit, and then drove a F1 car with 750bhp and aerodynamics of an 80's car I think he'd find the F1 car more challenging to drive even it was 5 seconds slower, and a trackside viewer wouldn't notice the time difference. |
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1 Apr 2013, 15:37 (Ref:3227618) | #91 | |
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Would he be able to keep the pace if they all had tyres that lasted much longer, or would the better cars still leave him behind? Bearing in mind that it was only the Red Bull team that actually complained about the tyres degrading and blunting the performance of the car. What Force India should do is try and figure out how to make their tyres last as long as they do on the Ferrari's, etc. It's much easier to do that than trying to catch a Red Bull car on tyres that don't degrade. Harder tyres might get Hulkenberg a podium, but they won't keep Red Bull off it.
Last edited by Marbot; 1 Apr 2013 at 15:46. |
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1 Apr 2013, 16:41 (Ref:3227640) | #92 | ||
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i think that unless F! can stop kicking itself in the shins in full view/sound of the public it will be the butt of all the worse comments about sport being a busness rather than a serious contest between drivers/cars
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1 Apr 2013, 17:42 (Ref:3227653) | #93 | ||
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The 'public' already thinks this about F1. Go to any mainstream news site and click on F1 stories and see what I mean. And the feeling towards it is much worse than what you mention.
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2 Apr 2013, 11:24 (Ref:3227936) | #94 | ||||
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Fundamentally, an F1 race has to be hard for a car, putting it under immense stress, and 300km would been brutal for the cars in those days. With the current rules about engines, the FIA are saying that 700km is stretch for a modern day F1 engine. Sanitised racing conditions, circuits with the same characteristics, similiar looking cars. Yep, F1 is a joke. Quote:
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