Safety Car Rules - Changes Needed

[wnut]

The rules that allow a competitor to unlap himself under the safety car need to be changed.
It takes too long for the competitor - Webber RBR in Germany to get through the pack and then go around and unlap himself.
It is unfair on other competitors who have legitimately managed to lap the car in question.
In Germany Force India missed out on a championship point when Webber's RBR managed to finish 7th only through being allowed to unlap itself under the safety car.

How many laps is a competitor allowed to unlap himself?
Could we see a GP finish behind the safety car because they are waiting for somebody to unlap themselves?

[Razzzor]

Just wait till there's a big crash after a car flying through traffic under safety car hits someone that's weaving to warmup tyres. It's eventually happen, and perhaps then they'll stop this rule.

It does indeed suck for those on the tail end of the lead lap, because without the SC Webber might have retired early just to save the car.

[Peat]

I'm in two minds whether or not i like the 'lucky dog' thing.

But, what i am sure about is that it would be far far safer (and faster) to instruct the lapped car to drop to the tail of the field and simply credit them a lap on Timing and Scoring. It can't be THAT difficult, shirley?

[jsTrecu]

Originally Posted by Peat

I'm in two minds whether or not i like the 'lucky dog' thing.

But, what i am sure about is that it would be far far safer (and faster) to instruct the lapped car to drop to the tail of the field and simply credit them a lap on Timing and Scoring. It can't be THAT difficult, shirley?

A car dropping back while others are constantly making moves to keep the tyres on temperature can be worse.
But maybe it could work if they are all instructed to stay on one side of the track while it is done.

[Vepe]

Originally Posted by wnut

The rules that allow a competitor to unlap himself under the safety car need to be changed.
1. It takes too long for the competitor - Webber RBR in Germany to get through the pack and then go around and unlap himself.

2. It is unfair on other competitors who have legitimately managed to lap the car in question.
In Germany Force India missed out on a championship point when Webber's RBR managed to finish 7th only through being allowed to unlap itself under the safety car.

How many laps is a competitor allowed to unlap himself?
Could we see a GP finish behind the safety car because they are waiting for somebody to unlap themselves?

1. I agree that it takes too long. Maybe they could restart the race when the unlapping cars are still catching up.

2. This is something I don't understand. Why is that unfair? I believe that it would be even more unfair for the lapped car to leave him there, because it means that the gap between him and the car in front of him grows from possibly as little as a couple of seconds to over a minute. Would that be fair? Don't just think of the leading group.

[p-matt]

I don't think it's right to have a situation like Monaco 2011 where you had Maldonado in 7th and Heidfeld in 8th (I think), nose-to-tail on track but Nick was a lap down because the safety was deployed just as he was lapped.

You can't really credit them a lap back because you can't give them laps they haven't done! Who knows - a driver could lose it on track in that lap to chase up to the back of the pack. In wet conditions there's quite a high likelihood of that.

In the interests of good racing, lapped cars should be able to overtake. Maybe they should let them overtake the safety car and give them about half a lap or so before restarting the race rather than waiting until they have caught up with the rest of the pack?

[Vepe]

Originally Posted by p-matt

Maybe they should let them overtake the safety car and give them about half a lap or so before restarting the race rather than waiting until they have caught up with the rest of the pack?

I believe that is what they usually do, like in Silverstone, but for some reason it didn't happen this time.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by p-matt

In the interests of good racing, lapped cars should be able to overtake. Maybe they should let them overtake the safety car and give them about half a lap or so before restarting the race rather than waiting until they have caught up with the rest of the pack?

That is the interests of the SHOW and not sport.

[Sodemo]

The request for cars to unlap themselves just needs to come a lot sooner. How long was the SC out for? 6 laps? Just tell the lapped cars on lap 2 or something...?

[Vepe]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

That is the interests of the SHOW and not sport.

No. Not allowing the lapped cars to unlap themselves means that they lose possibly as much as 1 and a half minutes to the car in front of them. So it is in the interest of the SPORT.

DON'T ONLY THINK OF THE LEADING GROUP.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I have no issue with the lap back in order to have the track order match the running order. But there seems to be an inconstancy in whether those cars are allowed to catch the back of the train.

Perhaps once the running order is established, and in an area of track safe to do so, the lapped cars come up and run between the SC and the leader. These cars are then released on the announcement of "SC in this lap" to run at racing speed to get as far in front as they can before the leader which stays behind the SC is released on the green flag.

It reads a bit convoluted but in practice I think it would work regardless of circuit length.

[Greem]

In terms of the length of time it takes, this is partially down to ensuring the track isn't full of cars trying to catch the safety car "train" which gives marshals no clear gap to work on whatever brought the SC out in the first place.

Once the incident is clear - and only when it deemed safe to do so by the folks "on the ground" (the Incident Officer and/or Post Chief in the UK), Race Control (chief marshal & Charlie Whiting) & with input from the SC observer - the instruction can be given for lapped cars to pass the SC and proceed at increased (but not full racing) speed to catch back up.

It's all to do with minimising risk. It could be made shorter by waving them through earlier, but that would make it more "exciting" for us lot dealing with things!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Greem

It's all to do with minimising risk. It could be made shorter by waving them through earlier, but that would make it more "exciting" for us lot dealing with things!

Agreed. It's not about the show or the sport, it's about safety.

[Woolley]

How about:

1) Show the yellow flags to slow the cars.
2) Once they've slowed it's easy to send the SC out to always pick up the leader.
3) Make the leader continue at SC speed until shown the green flag on approach to the start line (as for a normal rolling start) and allow overtaking as soon as the green is shown (no artificial line - if it's safe to race, then race)

Doesn't matter where the tail ender is then since he can be overtaken without holding anyone up.

Oh, and scrap the stupid waved green all around the lap. Stops you from being able to show the more useful waved blue, especially when the pack is bunched.

[chillibowl]

out of curiosity is there a reason why you cant have the lapped cars drive through the pit lane in order to join up at the rear of the pack (placing them all back on the lead lap still without the physical need for them to unlap themselves) and then having the restart a few corners later on the back straight?

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Vepe

No. Not allowing the lapped cars to unlap themselves means that they lose possibly as much as 1 and a half minutes to the car in front of them. So it is in the interest of the SPORT.

DON'T ONLY THINK OF THE LEADING GROUP.

Certainly that is a factor.

I think we should do away with blue flags and not allow people to catch up under safety cars. That way backmarkers would fight to stay on the lead lap and if they lose a minute under a safety car then tough.

Of course, this would be very tough on the front-running primadonnas. Oh well, never mind.

Watching Webber sailing past everyone having previously been wheeled back into his garage on three wheels was a bit naff really.

Also how many times have they tweaked the safety car rule in the last decade? They seem to be different every year.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Vepe

I believe that is what they usually do, like in Silverstone, but for some reason it didn't happen this time.

Brundle was complaining during the Silverstone commentary that we were waiting for a restart while the lapped car made it's way round on a clear track. Don't know if the car got all the way to the tail but it definitely cost at least one and probably two laps of racing there.

That's the issue I have with it - when the SC is near the end of the race, the extra lap(s) while the lapped cars come around (remembering that they are not permitted to go full bore under SC conditions) can really stretch out a SC period and deflate a strong finish.

I'd reckon that Mercedes would have loved the "lucky dog" car delay at Silverstone. You could argue that Webber was hurt by it at Silverstone but gained from it at the 'Ring.