Problems with F1 - Singapore - Page 3

garcon · 25 Sep 2013, 12:38 (Ref:3309193)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

That logic doesn't stack up.

Well you need to take that up with the stewards.

The rules are perfectly clear. If a driver gets three reprimands in a season he gets a penalty. If two of those reprimands were for a driving infringement then he gets a driving penalty. His first two reprimands were for driving penalties (from memory a collision and overtaking/not slowing under yellow) so he gets a driving penalty. The fact his third reprimand wasn't for a driving infringement is entirely irrelevant.

It may appear harsh in certain circumstances, but it seems perfectly logical to me.

I also think the idea that Alonso consciously decided to pick Webber up thinking it would incur Webber a penalty is fanciful nonsense.

**bella** · 25 Sep 2013, 13:47 (Ref:3309220)

it doesn't help that penalties, particularly these cumulative ones, are trying to quantify something that is entirely unquantifyable. you can't really put down in numbers or on a pie chart how dangerous something is, or the risk or loss of opportunity the assailant suffered.

the result is a system that does indeed penalise repeat offenders, but that it doesn't take into account more than one degree of seriousness.

garcon · 25 Sep 2013, 14:53 (Ref:3309244)

It's far from perfect, but it's similar to the systems in several other sports.

Totting up bans for yellow cards in football, for example. Doesn't matter if your last yellow was for something trivial like removing your shirt when celebrating a goal - if it's your fifth you'll still get a game ban.

**Adam43** · 25 Sep 2013, 18:58 (Ref:3309312)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

it doesn't help that penalties, particularly these cumulative ones, are trying to quantify something that is entirely unquantifyable. you can't really put down in numbers or on a pie chart how dangerous something is, or the risk or loss of opportunity the assailant suffered.

the result is a system that does indeed penalise repeat offenders, but that it doesn't take into account more than one degree of seriousness.

"quantify something that is entirely unquantifiable" - I like that.
That is because, to the cries of consistency, they have to come up with some rules for the penalties. Of course no two situations are ever quite the same, despite the examples often given. All those pictures of lifts from bygone years for example. It needs some people to make a judgement, but we didn't like that and cried for consistency and no bias. To remove the perception of bias we had to have a solution like this.

No one wants to apply any understanding to either method. We all pick fault, because we are clever. There is no perfect solution.

It was cool to see Webber getting a lift back from Alonso. However they chose to do something stupid, so risked a consequence. The trick is to not do something stupid.

wnut · 26 Sep 2013, 00:34 (Ref:3309420)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

Well you need to take that up with the stewards.

I also think the idea that Alonso consciously decided to pick Webber up thinking it would incur Webber a penalty is fanciful nonsense.

The stewarding imo is horribly inconsistent.

However in this case considering the dangerous way in which the pick up was made, I think they both deserved a penalty.

Agreed Alonso was not trying to get a penalty, he was just trying to exploit the discomfort between his man in RBR and Vettel.

At this point, I would suggest that Webber is more valuable to Alonso than Webber, but this is just my perception.

JeremySmith · 26 Sep 2013, 00:41 (Ref:3309421)

I think he just gave his friend a ride ..

wnut · 26 Sep 2013, 00:56 (Ref:3309425)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I think he just gave his friend a ride ..

Probably the most sensible interpretation.

Stupid place to stop!

JeremySmith · 26 Sep 2013, 00:59 (Ref:3309426)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Probably the most sensible interpretation.

Stupid place to stop!

It was silly and he knows better ...

. But it's a long and very hot race, he like the rest of us is not perfect ..

**Aysedasi** · 26 Sep 2013, 08:19 (Ref:3309499)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I think he just gave his friend a ride ..

Exactly. Any dark theories are verging on the ridiculous. Still, it gives us something else to debate, I suppose....

FAS33 · 26 Sep 2013, 08:25 (Ref:3309500)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I think he just gave his friend a ride ..

that sounds wrong

garcon · 26 Sep 2013, 08:58 (Ref:3309510)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Stupid place to stop!

Have you ever hailed a taxi in downtown Marbella? I reckon that's where he gets it from.

wnut · 26 Sep 2013, 09:11 (Ref:3309516)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

Have you ever hailed a taxi in downtown Marbella? I reckon that's where he gets it from.

johngee · 26 Sep 2013, 09:43 (Ref:3309531)

This post will probably get me banned by Ten Tenths and get me 'struck off' by the MSA! I'm probably not ready for the 21st century but let the penalty fit the crime - this is supposed to be a 'sport'?
All that was required was for the stewards to send for the Webber and Alonso and say "Nice gesture guys - very sporting, good for the 'show' and all that - probably a bit dangerous - don't do it again"
Watched 'Grand Prix - The Killer Years" on BBC4 last night - that's when it was serious.
This whole business is all political correctness gone mad and illustrates what's wrong with F1, sport and, indeed life today.
I'll never be a FIA Steward - 'good', I hear you say?

garcon · 26 Sep 2013, 12:25 (Ref:3309582)

Steward? Nah. John for FIA President!

Kempi · 26 Sep 2013, 16:39 (Ref:3309670)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johngee

All that was required was for the stewards to send for the Webber and Alonso and say "Nice gesture guys - very sporting, good for the 'show' and all that - probably a bit dangerous - don't do it again"

Well, that is exactly what they did by handing out reprimands. Trouble for Webber was it was the third time he received one of those. The example above with the yellow cards in soccer is very fitting. Noone complains about the rules there, either.

johngee · 26 Sep 2013, 17:03 (Ref:3309677)

Sorry Kempi. My sloppy and inexact use of English. I really meant an 'informal reprimand' as such - but I don't think that exists in the world of Formula 1.

**Adam43** · 26 Sep 2013, 20:27 (Ref:3309773)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I think he just gave his friend a ride ..

What a radical idea.

**Adam43** · 26 Sep 2013, 20:30 (Ref:3309776)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johngee

...political correctness gone mad ...

Is that three fingers, or just down the drink?

garcon · 26 Sep 2013, 20:39 (Ref:3309782)

Just down the drink and refill the glass.

Or stop reading.

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