Toro Rosso seat n2?

[Mathias]

Not that surprised about Kvyat. These days of course a fat cheque is likely to influence a decision where all other things are equal, but Kvyat's shown himself to not be a bad driver.

And coming straight from GP3 to F1 shouldn't, in itself, surprise anyone. Just think of the number of drivers - including world champions - that leap-frogged F2 (or F3000/GP2/WSxR etc), like Kimi Raikkonen, Jenson Button, and, dare I say it, but for one F3000 race, Michael Schumacher!

Fair play to the bloke, I say.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Mathias

And coming straight from GP3 to F1 shouldn't, in itself, surprise anyone. Just think of the number of drivers - including world champions - that leap-frogged F2 (or F3000/GP2/WSxR etc), like Kimi Raikkonen, Jenson Button, and, dare I say it, but for one F3000 race, Michael Schumacher!

Fair play to the bloke, I say.

it makes me want to hurt innocent bystanders when someone looks surprised about a driver going from gp3 (or vice versa) to f1. it's about the driver, not the results. when the boy can drive, and he can drive anything quickly, it really doesn't matter whether he has wasted 2 years in a big noisy car or not.

[BSchneiderFan]

Vice-versa? Who's gone from F1 to F3 recently?

[bella]

i suppose you could say coletti's had a fair old go at that, what with testing for toro rosso and pottering around driving whatever's going on

wrong choice of word. i think i meant "and so on" rather than "vice versa".

[Fiorentina 1]

They sold the seat; pure and simple. I think if Repsol would have written a bigger check then Jaime Alguersauri would have probably kept his seat a few years ago as well. It is what it is....The kid isn't ready for F1, but he'll learn and do as well as a Toro Rosso could. Vergne is going to kill the first 1/2 of the season, then the Russian will catch up. It might make Vergne look like Alain Prost beating him 20 to 0.....

[Knowlesy]

An astonishing decision. I just hope it works out for the boy.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bella

it makes me want to hurt innocent bystanders when someone looks surprised about a driver going from gp3 (or vice versa) to f1. it's about the driver, not the results. when the boy can drive, and he can drive anything quickly, it really doesn't matter whether he has wasted 2 years in a big noisy car or not.

Alonso's 25 open wheel race was in F1, he was clearly faast and it was too soon, but there you go!
I agree if a youngster is quick he is quick.

I think Ace007's post

"One guy not good enough + Russian $ pressing = rushed announcement! They did sell the seat once more - like they did with Alguersarri - to their own juniors... Money talks big time these days, so does the arrival of Sochi on the calendar!"

is probably completely accurate!

[bella]

it is definitely spot on, though i think it really helps that he's having a superb season. and he was beaten only by vandoorne in the eurocup the year before. that's absolutely key to the whole thing. if he wasn't having a great season he'd not be under consideration.

i guess i trust red bull to make this choice for kvyat more than i trust sirotkin's old man and sauber. i know it's cool to hate marko, but iafter recent interviews with autosport i think he's dead right.

[Supertec]

Makes a lot of drivers in GP2 look idiots........spent millions to try for F1 and GP3 get the prize....scrap GP2 now bypass F1 go straight to Le Mans, DTM or Indy cause they dont stand a hope in hell of going to F1. GP2 is designed to make money (for a few) not to produce F1 drivers...

[bella]

well yes, but 3.5 did that before gp3 has done this year. it's about who you know, where you've signed and how you conduct yourself, not how quick you are. which is really the way it is in every other industry in the world, so why should motorsport be any different?

i've said it before but as far as i can see, gp2 is a baby f1 for guys who are never going to get to f1 to have a go in. it replicates the tyre issues, reverse grids shake the field about a bit, and there's some strategy headaches too. the bonus is that you can do it on a tiny percentage of a f1 budget. perhaps that's how we should be viewing it instead of as part of the ~f1 ladder.

[ace007]

Originally Posted by Supertec

Makes a lot of drivers in GP2 look idiots........spent millions to try for F1 and GP3 get the prize....scrap GP2 now bypass F1 go straight to Le Mans, DTM or Indy cause they dont stand a hope in hell of going to F1. GP2 is designed to make money (for a few) not to produce F1 drivers...

That's the risk indeed...

Having said that, the ones who did skip the higher categories used to have LOTS of testing (Button, Raikko, even Sutil even if he brought serious $ at the beginning...) whereas these days, it might be short-lived for Sirotkin ot even Kvyat! Look at Alguessari or even Buemi... quickly on board, quicker even out!

[bella]

only if you're a red bull contracted driver - the problem with that is that all the other teams know you've been given a fair crack of the whip and if a driver was really that good red bull wouldn't be getting rid of them.

there's no other teams who are like that about their drivers, are there?

[ace007]

Originally Posted by bella

only if you're a red bull contracted driver - the problem with that is that all the other teams know you've been given a fair crack of the whip and if a driver was really that good red bull wouldn't be getting rid of them.

there's no other teams who are like that about their drivers, are there?

You could argue as well that Telmex/Slim did it "too early" with Gutierrez for example. His chance of staying in F1 are slim...

[bella]

Originally Posted by ace007

You could argue as well that Telmex/Slim did it "too early" with Gutierrez for example. His chance of staying in F1 are slim...

nice pun

i guess with the cash situation sauber are in now we'll have to wait until later on in the year/early next year to find out if that's the case. he clearly *can* drive, he's just had a bit of a fraught season. not sure what else he'd have learnt in gp2 though?

it'd be a shame for the telmex money to disappear from the sport though, given that it's in such dire need of big money at the moment.

[ace007]

Absolutely! Hopefully Telmex stays for long with a Mexican GP around the corner. As for the drivers, it is unfortunately attached to these two...

Do you see Telmex staying thanks to the announced GP without any of the two drivers on the grid? So many talks about neither of them delivering at their expected dev. stages...

[bella]

Originally Posted by ace007

Do you see Telmex staying thanks to the announced GP without any of the two drivers on the grid? So many talks about neither of them delivering at their expected dev. stages...

i think the talks are passing comments from the people who know really what they're expecting from the drivers. those comments are then getting taken WAY out of context by the internet secondary media brigade.

the problem is that there aren't many experienced options aside from hulkenberg - why is no-one signing him up? i mean, REALLY, not some contrived excuse about size or ability to deliver in a competitive car. at least the youngins are known quantities, even the ones who aren't quite pulling their socks up far enough.

can't see telmex hanging around if their drivers don't. attaching to drivers is the way sponsorship is going nowadays isn't it? maybe they'll take the santander route and lead sponsor the races or something.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bella

i think the talks are passing comments from the people who know really what they're expecting from the drivers. those comments are then getting taken WAY out of context by the internet secondary media brigade.

the problem is that there aren't many experienced options aside from hulkenberg - why is no-one signing him up? i mean, REALLY, not some contrived excuse about size or ability to deliver in a competitive car. at least the youngins are known quantities, even the ones who aren't quite pulling their socks up far enough.

can't see telmex hanging around if their drivers don't. attaching to drivers is the way sponsorship is going nowadays isn't it? maybe they'll take the santander route and lead sponsor the races or something.

The size factor with Hulkenberg is not at all contrived, you have to be convinced that he is four tenths of a second faster than the best lightest driver option available, otherwise he is a no go!

Sad, unfair, and should be rectified, but valid nevertheless!

[p-matt]

I can't agree at all that Kvyat's promotion makes GP2 redundant, or that 3.5 has made GP2 redundant (but that's not a debate for here).

I can see Kvyat being shown up a bit moving from GP3/F3 to F1 in the early part of next year. Ironically Sirotkin would be in a better to step up for next year as he has much more experience of bigger and more powerful cars (Auto GP and 3.5) than Kvyat. Although Red Bull will prepare their man better than Sauber can prepare Sirotkin. I still maintain that Sergey is the most naturally talented Russian in single seaters at the moment.

[bella]

maybe sirotkin has real life experience of big powerful cars, but kvyat has a vast amount of experience on the red bull simulators. can't discount that, it helps bridge the gap even if it doesn't replace real life experience.

i think sirotkin is naturally quicker too, but he hasn't been nurtured and developed in the same way kvyat has, has he?

Originally Posted by wnut

The size factor with Hulkenberg is not at all contrived, you have to be convinced that he is four tenths of a second faster than the best lightest driver option available, otherwise he is a no go!

Sad, unfair, and should be rectified, but valid nevertheless!

sorry, but it's just not a pivotal reason why they're not signing him up. i'm sure it's an obstacle to overcome, but it's not a reason why he'd be written off. i'd like to see some real, actual examples of when he's been cast aside for a midget who can match his pace.

but you're not wrong, it shouldn't even be a consideration.

[pedrocor]

Well, Red Bull kept Da Costa under contract, even will be third driver (and simulator) for RBR in 2014 (taking the job from Sebastien Buemi whom wisely chose to focus exclusively with Toyota at WEC).

More significantly Sainz Jr did not land the job, maybe Dr. Marko isn't fully assured that Kvyat can deliver, despite the ruble$ neither Sainz Jr. is ready to step up if needed.

In other hand Doctor Marko says they will put AFdC on a series that don't collide with F1 calendar, so no GP2... WSR 3.5 after an amazing first partial season and a rather disappointing first full season not wise either in my opinion...

Where could be AFdC be heading?

[BSchneiderFan]

DTM?

[chunterer]

Porsche with Webber?