What are the possibilities? Dreaming or....?

[Just Do It!]

There's an interesting concept that has been bouncing around between my wing-nut ears for some time, and that I thought I should finally share to gauge interest and plant a seed with the necessary powers-that-be, particularly with the V8 Supercar Development Series Bathurst 250 km mini-enduro announcement, but how cool would it be to have an endurance double-header over the same weekend for the Australian GT Championship and V8 Supercars.

The current challenges are that the two categories seem to be at loggerheads over the most famous Australian motorsport venue, so why not come together and combine? I know, the cries of it can't be done will be wild and loud, but let's explore the can, as opposed to the cannot for a moment.

Back in the day, Bathurst was an endurance race for largely production-based cars - like any of you need educating, but..... - and it really was an endurance race. These days the Supercheap Auto Bathurst 1000 is pretty much a 1000 km sprint race, and whilst we never want to take the gloss and nostalgia off history, there is also a crater in the market as far as a true V8 Supercar endurance race goes.

Enter the Bathurst 12-Hour for GT cars. A great concept, and sure, the V8 Supercars don't qualify as GT cars by any shake of the pencil, but this is an ideas fest, a sounding board, a brain storm session if you will.

So why not run a double-header? I can hear the cries now, but think about it from a spectator and spectacle point of view: two 12-hour races in one weekend. Yes, you read that right - a GT 12-Hour and a V8 Supercar 12-Hour, which would take the V8 Supercar race close to a 2000 km race - a more realistic endurance race, and leaves the traditional 1000 km race to occur in it's traditional October time slot in a more sprint-style format. In fact, from a V8 Supercar perspective, it gives two bites of the pie about 6 months apart at two completely different and unique events.

Sure, it would desert some of the current 12-Hour support categories, but let's just dream a little and see what eventuates.

I eagerly await the flood of cannots, will nots, and the shan'ts, but let us see if we can convert them to "Yes, we can!" scenarios.

[Mixer]

Different commercial rights holders, not gonna happen.

[peckstar]

why one weekend of racing , when we can have two

Also i based on the animosity I See on here, not to many GT fans would be interested in the v8s race

[Reload]

I couldn't concentrate on the rest of the post after your "like any of you need educating" line.

[Samwhk]

While I can't see it happening, I love the idea!

Now, the V8 12 hour, how would the grid be comprised? Only current gen cars, or open it up to any car that has been raced in the main game in the last 10(?) years? Would you have to make it compulsory to ensure the top teams showed?

If a weekend like this ever happened, I would HAVE to get my ass over to Oz.

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Different commercial rights holders, not gonna happen.

Sure, Mixer, but let's dream a little, as I originally said.

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by peckstar

why one weekend of racing , when we can have two

Also i based on the animosity I See on here, not to many GT fans would be interested in the v8s race

Did you read everything, dear Peckstar? There'd still be a separate 1000 km race in October, so there would still be two weekends of racing.

Surely, a bigger crowd would help the 12-Hour event nicely too.

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by Reload

I couldn't concentrate on the rest of the post after your "like any of you need educating" line.

That's unfortunate, Reload. You would've found there was more reasoning further down. Hopefully, the line that stopped you being able to concentrate isn't because there was an element of the truth.

Clearly, you are anti-V8 Supercars and incredibly pro-Bathurst 12-Hour, for which I have no objection.

All I was doing was floating an idea and hopefully as a collective, we could find a way to overcome objections, rather than shoot down the concept.

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by Samwhk

While I can't see it happening, I love the idea!

Now, the V8 12 hour, how would the grid be comprised? Only current gen cars, or open it up to any car that has been raced in the main game in the last 10(?) years? Would you have to make it compulsory to ensure the top teams showed?

If a weekend like this ever happened, I would HAVE to get my ass over to Oz.

I hadn't thought too much about the detail, Sam, but to give the race the credibility and value, it would need to be a championship round.

Maybe it would need three drivers per car too.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by peckstar

why one weekend of racing , when we can have two

Also i based on the animosity I See on here, not to many GT fans would be interested in the v8s race

Right on the first point

Wrong on the second.

I love GT racing but I've been more then happy to put aside one weekend in October for the last 15 years to watch the great race. It's a fantastic event that never bores me and I'm already looking forward to this years race. I bet as a GT fan I am not alone in saying that.

Why cram two races into one weekend when you could have two equally awesome weekends within six months of each other?

[mikuni]

I can see merit, but I think putting both events on a single weekend (irrespective of whether there is another weekend at another time during the year) would damage both/all events by viewership.

To solve the problem you raise, of a 1000km sprint race, I would rather see the Bathurst 1000 (the V8SC side) lengthened to either 12 hours or more kilometres. I'm not saying this is a good idea, but just another possible solution to turn it into a real endurance race.

[RedZedMikey]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

So why not run a double-header?

I like the concept, but I also don't like it! I've been to the last 3 12 hours, and, as a weekend, I don't think it needs the addition of the V8SC enduro to make it a success, larger crowds or not.

I think the biggest killer is pit facilities. There are 55 garages or slightly more? I think I saw grid spots down to 56 or 57 at the 12 hour. If the 12 hour race attracted this year's number of entrants - and it hopefully be more, and the V8 race attracted 25-30 entrants, they would be about 25 garages short.

Given the support, infrastructure and space for crew + spares for each entry in each race, I just can't see garage sharing happening. It's not just the race that the space is used for, it's practice and qually too - how would the interchange work?

Overall, I much prefer mikuni's concept of turning the B1000 into a V8SCB12, perhaps as a year-ending event to replace Homebush. That leaves the question of what to do with the October date though, but on the other hand, there would be more internationals available for late Nov or early Dec, and perhaps more interest in wildcard entries.

[one five five]

Would the same level of paddock access be available for the V8 12-hour as with the GT-12hr on the same weekend for this event?

One of the beauties of the 12hr is the access, even the international teams let you in and have a look at the coal face.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

Would the same level of paddock access be available for the V8 12-hour as with the GT-12hr on the same weekend for this event?

One of the beauties of the 12hr is the access, even the international teams let you in and have a look at the coal face.

would that depend on crowd size?

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by one five five

One of the beauties of the 12hr is the access, even the international teams let you in and have a look at the coal face.

BTCC teams at the ST B1000s were the same.

Engines, splitters, crossmembers, gearboxes, etc, sitting out in the sun in the laneway between the old pit building and the old garages, for all to see and marvel.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

That's unfortunate, Reload. You would've found there was more reasoning further down. Hopefully, the line that stopped you being able to concentrate isn't because there was an element of the truth.

Clearly, you are anti-V8 Supercars and incredibly pro-Bathurst 12-Hour, for which I have no objection.

All I was doing was floating an idea and hopefully as a collective, we could find a way to overcome objections, rather than shoot down the concept.

Sincerest apologgies to you as a lack of concentration led me to think that it was another forum member as the OP.

[eduardo1]

I agree with peckstar - why? It's great having two strong but different events on our great racetrack.

But on all practical matters - it will never happen.

[Denosaur]

Got more chance of bringing the 24hr back then some crazy idea like that.....

[Alan52]

There are many reasons why this won't and probably shouldn't happen.First one is that any time of year except February is unsuitable for OS GT teams.This is the one time of year that Bathurst fits with both teams and drivers without clashes with other series and races.It is the OS teams that lift the 12 Hour into a great event and running it for Australian GT competitors only would make it no more special than the Phillip Island 101.
There would have to be massive compromises by both groups in terms of track time.V8SA would not be the ones compromising anything I suspect.Also a number of the support categories for V8SA would not be happy they have been frozen out of Bathurst.
Asking James O'Brien to hand his race over to V8SA would be like asking the ACO to hand over Le Mans to Ecclestone.The actions of Foxtel and V8SA in the last few months show they want to exterminate anything they see as competition with Dalek ruthlessness.Bringing the 12Hour on board would be gifting them the trigger.
Finally I attend both meetings and they have completely different ambience.A lot of the relaxed atmosphere for spectators at the 12Hour would be lost if V8's were anywhere near the place.