Have we gone down the right path..

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by isoskim

The question is, do we actually need a formal summer series? Let's say for simplicity, we have one "V8 group" and the TRS series as our national championships, plus Formula Ford.

Is there any particular issue of having them run across different parts of the year? TRS are proving successful with their current format, if this is propped up by local classes and potentially 1-2 rounds of V8s, that could make quite a show. The V8's could then do their own thing and create their own events.

The point I come back to is that excluding these 3 classes + South Island Enduro (not knocking, great class and extremely well run) everyone else is essentially racing for chocolate fish. They have varying requirements from a national body, some require sanctioned series articles to provide a competitive framework for their competitors, some just want to go out and trash their modern cars, and then we have the classic scene.

I've been on both sides of the fence (both the MSNZ run Summer Series and the V8ST model) and can see merit in both. This model would put the onus back on the Race Organising Clubs to run better race meetings for the competitors and to try and attract the public. If an ROC is relying on a gate taking to make money, they will always struggle, especially in Auckland! Just look at the ton of promotion around Thunder in the Park, would have been a great meeting without the NZV8TC!

From my own experience, in the last 12 months the politics involved with this sport absolutely ruin it. I remember volunteering years ago and actually enjoying being involved. Now it seems like more of a chore to try and clean up the mess that others are leaving behind. Being at conference, the lack of desire for change was on show for all to see and the lack of leadership being shown by any of the elected office holders was bordering on pathetic (excluding Crunch, at least he is on here trying to respond!). and No, I didn't put my hand up, because I wouldn't be elected, it's that simple, I can already hear the reasons! It was great to see RogerH firing bullets in person though!

Excellent post Isoskim. I to used to think Crunch might have been able to "step up to the plate" as he talks the talk and walks the walk, however he has yet to stand up for whats wrong with MSNZ, and in doing so put his .....'s on the line. Sadly I see no evidence of that, and the clock is ticking, and ticking very loudly!

[promax]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

is it not time that a massive pool of egos nominated themselves for a charity punch-up along the lines of "fight fot life" and got all this nonsense sorted out, so the public, the sponsors and the teams come back and knuckle down to re-create the spectacle that once was ????

that won't work.. the ref and judges can be paid off

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by promax

that won't work.. the ref and judges can be paid off

You two should get a room...

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

You two should get a room...

I don't know about Maxi but the Joe Laing I remember couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag! Admittedly I haven't seen Joe for many years and I don't know if he has stopped smoking, hence his nickname, but Joe used to be a long haired weedy guy that always had a fag hanging out of the corner of his mouth.

[Goat Boy]

Oddly enough that is exactly the mental picture I had!

I was referring to Joe and Maxi though...

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Oddly enough that is exactly the mental picture I had!

I was referring to Joe and Maxi though...

So was I.


.

[promax]

tough talk from an old man soccerfootball fan LMAO you two crack me up!

[Goat Boy]

Nothing wrong with TBG!

Even if England were hopeless

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

I don't know about Maxi but the Joe Laing I remember couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag! Admittedly I haven't seen Joe for many years and I don't know if he has stopped smoking, hence his nickname, but Joe used to be a long haired weedy guy that always had a fag hanging out of the corner of his mouth.

good to see you have tried to do some homework, but wrong on all counts, except i havn't given up the nicotine

[smokin'joe]

back to the issues at hand.

is it such a good idea to be grabbing young ex-karters and putting them in a ute/saloon class with no progression??

i would have thought, given that Hartley, Stanaway Evans etc have gone down the openwheeler path to great success, that F/Ford or TRS would be a better fit than another one-make series ?

[Dav1s]

What there isnt in NZ is really a clear tin top progression.

We had Mini Challenge which did run on slicks and wets etc.

We had the Suzukis, which ran on dot rated tyres.

Then when you step up into a V8 or Porsche from either of these classes im not to sure how much a driver could really translate from low HP front wheel drive road cars, to high power rear wheel drive cars.

There was production series, but was there a medium in between (cant remember?)

V8 Utes looked like you take all you know about driving a real race car, and throw it out the window.

Not sure how much actual driving and engineering the SsangYong series would develop, but again i dont know enough about it to really comment.

However it would make a great pure entertainment class, for celebs and sports people to bang doors in as a curtain raiser to the main even during a race weekend.

My two cents,

Davis

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

i would have thought, given that Hartley, Stanaway Evans etc have gone down the openwheeler path to great success, that F/Ford or TRS would be a better fit than another one-make series ?

No disrespect meant when I say this, but I think you may be conveniently overlooking the fact the the three young men you refer to have all been extremely privileged on their way up the ladder, in one way or another.

A youngster who doesn't have significant family money/connections to support him, is likely to take what he can get rather than sit on the sidelines.

[promax]

hardly anything new lol one make series that claim to be a stepping stone to F1/V8SC/etc

it would be nice to see FF and like.. full of young talent... that progress onto TRS. but like on_to_it said.. it's not easy without the money or contacts.

[promax]

Originally Posted by Dav1s

What there isnt in NZ is really a clear tin top progression.

has there ever been? those that have made it into NZ top tin top class of the day.. have come from here there and everywhere. the path to V8SC seems to be.. FF then Porsche/Development Series

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by promax

the path to V8SC seems to be.. FF then Porsche/Development Series

plenty of them had a crack in Europe in open-wheelers, before returning to Oz.

[Dav1s]

Originally Posted by promax

has there ever been? those that have made it into NZ top tin top class of the day.. have come from here there and everywhere. the path to V8SC seems to be.. FF then Porsche/Development Series

I just seem to recall going to an event where there was mini challenge, production incl Swifts, Porsches, a second tier NZV8s field then the NZV8s.

Now what is there, that gets good coverage for young up and comers.

Some utes that run at a similar pace as the HQs (correct me if I am wrong), V8 utes????, Suzuki series seems to have disappeared, Production GT (does that still happen) Porsche series gone, and NZV8s dont have enough current generation cars to muster up a grid in TLX guise.

I agree there is endurance racing out there doing well lately, but its coverage is basically limited to Facebook unless I am mistaken.

I guess my point is, compared to some time ago, there is no classes in existence where you get good coverage, and close even racing as you look to raise money to move up the ladder where you have a roof over your head.

Having just typed all that, I just remembered the existence of the 86 series, but couldnt tell you who ran in it or who even won (if the championship has finished)

Davis

[promax]

some HQs are faster than others


is what you described a path or a pecking order? looks more like a pecking order to me. those that had money could skip all those classes and go straight to a Porsche.

[promax]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

plenty of them had a crack in Europe in open-wheelers, before returning to Oz.

that's true. still FF was the class 99% of the V8SC guys raced in. over here it seems to be a step in a drivers development.. that is often skipped

[promax]

http://www.bmwraceseries.co.nz/?page_id=1639

[GHOGH]

The Toyota 86 are offered as a lease package now.
http://www.toyotaracing.co.nz/toyota...-championship/

[The Realist]

For events to be viable, you need to realize that we are in the entertainment business.
Punters want to see exciting racing in fast and entertaining classes with large grid sizes, and meet both legendary and famous drivers.
The Australian Grand Prix in 2013 cost the Victorian taxpayer $60 million, but of note was that $2 million of this was attributed to Mark Webbers retirement.
The 2013 Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix at Philip Island cost the Victorian Govt $11.27 million, and a $5 million drop in ticket sales was attributed to Casey Stoners retirement.
When legends like Jim Richards are guests at events, ticket sales go up.
I see that a recent announcement that Mad Mike will be appearing at the Highlands 101 in November will be a commercial decision by them to attract an additional sector of the spectator market.
Rumour is that Pukekohe will feature truck racing at the November NZ SuperTourer meeting, thus attracting additional spectators.
It is good to see a bit of lateral thinking going on behind the scenes for the coming season.

This is probably better posted here.

[CDM]

Originally Posted by GHOGH

The Toyota 86 are offered as a lease package now.
http://www.toyotaracing.co.nz/toyota...-championship/

Interesting change of heart there. I know for a fact that they certainly wouldn't entertain the fact of leasing the cars last year...

[The Realist]

Originally Posted by CDM

Interesting change of heart there. I know for a fact that they certainly wouldn't entertain the fact of leasing the cars last year...

I think Toyota are trying to meet the market, while there still is one.
Hope they get their numbers, as a full grid of their GT86's is the only way to save their investment.

[CDM]

Originally Posted by The Realist

I think Toyota are trying to meet the market, while there still is one.
Hope they get their numbers, as a full grid of their GT86's is the only way to save their investment.

Very very true!