2015 Moto GP...

[Trev Campbell]

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

Interesting end to an eventful year! I was going for Rossi right up until PI when he tried to play mental games with Marc and found out hes not Biaggi. Sepang sealed it for me and I was firmly in Lorenzo's corner. I wonder if it has crossed Rossi's mind that if he hadn't tried to play mind games he'd probably be champ now.... He was more or less the architect of his own failure.

It is nice to see him FINALLY get pulled up for riding overly aggressively and putting people off the track. just off the top of my head Capirossi, Stoner, Gibernau and Biaggi all have cause for complaint there.

Totally agree with everything you have written here. Summed up my thoughts exactly.

[J Jay]

While I can't fault the general sentiment (although I wanted Rossi to win the title) I'm don't I agree with the specifics, HDTVKSS:

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

I wonder if it has crossed Rossi's mind that if he hadn't tried to play mind games he'd probably be champ now.... He was more or less the architect of his own failure.

Rossi's comments at following PI guaranteed the reaction from Marquez so it can't be denied that he made the rod for his own back. He would have thought that Marquez was going to do exactly the same things anyway, but that one's lost to the aether. Rossi lost the argument as well as the championship and I'd be surprised if even his ego got in the way of reflecting over how the last few weeks should have been handled better.

But there is an aside to why he spoke out - he knew that Lorenzo had enough pace to overhaul the points gap, interference or not. If he had been more patient with Marquez in the Sepang race he still would have finished 3rd at best, and keeping his qualifying position at Valencia wouldn't have got him any further up than 4th based on his pace throughout the weekend. The cracks were definitely showing by Aragorn; Pedrosa rode out of his skin but he would not have taken 2nd if Rossi had the pace and nous expected of him. Ditto for PI - regardless of what Marquez was or wasn't doing, Rossi should have left something to be able to get past Iannone in the closing laps. Those seven points would have been enough to see the title decided in his favour.

So Rossi would still have had to rely on the Hondas to get past Lorenzo. Having rewatched the race, Marquez is fooling absolutely no-one about his race strategy but I reckon it would still be a tall order for both of them to have made it past in the closing laps (Lorenzo was quicker from T7 to T13 and the Yamaha had enough to keep the Hondas behind on the straight). The title was gone already, Rossi just put the verbal nails in the coffin.

[HDTVKSS]

hmmm.

If Rossi had kept his mouth and ego in check, Marquez would have gone out and just done his own race. he may even have come off as has been his habit this year.

I think the reaction Rossi was looking for was for everyone to jump out of his way so he could have a "straight fight" with Lorenzo. Especially after getting burned so badly in PI and having to scrap so hard. Of course, this suits Rossi as it means hes able to more easily contain Lorenzo and any points leakage.

Whoever advised him on this being a good idea is a fool and made a massive misjudgement of Marquez's character.

After being called out so publicly + the history of scraps between them such as Assen pretty much guaranteed the Sepang response from Marc. Getting shunted off the bike at Sepang pretty much guaranteed that Marquez was going to punish Rossi if he could. Marquez had nothing to lose and called Rossi's bluff in a big way. IMHO Marquez would probably have crashed Rossi if he'd caught up to him last night before letting him past. Im thankful that never happened because that would have taken this to NASCAR levels of stupid. What goes around tends to come around.

So now the big wall will go up again at Yamaha, this time at Lorenzo's bequest and any data that was going between the two will cease. Be interesting to see how Rossi deals with that.

[Razzzor]

I can understand Marc being ****ed at Rossi over Assen, he was totally robbed. In any other series if 2 drivers are side-by-side and one can't make the corner at all and just straight lines it, while the other does make the corner and would have made the pass, the first guy should give that position up. You can just shortcut the track. Rossi shouldn't have won that race.

The other incident was just racing.

But why is Lorenzo anti-Rossi? The thumbs down at the podium, trying to put a stop on the appeal, they're supposed to be teammates but they seem to get on worse than Vettel/Webber did!

Anyway just looking at the stats they're all stacked in Jorge's favour

Poles 5-1
Flap 6-4
Wins 7-4

Only one retirement to Jorge.

I'm not sure about seeing Rossi equal Agostini's record, whether I'd like to see that or not. Undecided. Probably not, to be honest I've lost some respect for Rossi this year.

[gomick]

Does it say much for the depth of MotoGP if Rossi can finish 4th from last place on the grid?
Congrats to Jorge, definitely faster than Rossi all year. Pity Marquez didn't have a go at him for the win, he would normally have a go from a long way back - maybe he was protecting?
Congrats to Danny Kent too

[Artur]

phew, very refreshing to once again have it confirmed to me that this forum has the most inteligent members of all of the several ones that I have come accross throught several years(~15years) using the internet!!!

Even the Rossi fans here are all reasonable and rationale. The amount of bitterness, hatred and nonsensical stuff that I have seen in some places is frustrating, even if totally expected/predictable.

Rossi have always appeared like a friendly good fellow across the tv cameras, so, it's perfectly understable why so many people cheers for and likes the guy. Conversely, Lorenzo have always appeared like a grumpy, crabby guy, so, it's equally understable(or, perhaps better said, expected) why so many people dislikes, or even hates, him.

But people, sadly, let their resentment have the best of them and end up with irrational thoughts towards some happenings.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

If Rossi had kept his mouth and ego in check, Marquez would have gone out and just done his own race. he may even have come off as has been his habit this year. Whoever advised him on this being a good idea is a fool and made a massive misjudgement of Marquez's character.

After being called out so publicly + the history of scraps between them such as Assen pretty much guaranteed the Sepang response from Marc. Getting shunted off the bike at Sepang pretty much guaranteed that Marquez was going to punish Rossi if he could. Marquez had nothing to lose and called Rossi's bluff in a big way. IMHO Marquez would probably have crashed Rossi if he'd caught up to him last night before letting him past. Im thankful that never happened because that would have taken this to NASCAR levels of stupid. What goes around tends to come around.

So now the big wall will go up again at Yamaha, this time at Lorenzo's bequest and any data that was going between the two will cease. Be interesting to see how Rossi deals with that.

At Sepang Marquez was struggling badly so he wouldn't have got ahead of Lorenzo and while I think he could have won at Valencia (he certainly could have tried at least one pass...) the key there was for Pedrosa to do the same, at which point Lorenzo would have fought tooth and nail to keep him behind. So I don't the final standings would be that different even if the infamous presser never happened.

I think that the clashes at Assen & Termas de Rio Hondo left their mark, so that even if Rossi had kept his mouth shut Marquez would still have made it difficult to get past. To what extent we will never know but it's academic as Rossi played right into Marquez's hands and gave him the "excuse" he needed to get involved. Two wrongs don't make a right though, and I'm more annoyed/disappointed with Marquez's behaviour than I am with Rossi's - at least he had his moment of idiocy off-track. The kindest thing I can say is that it's a real shame they are at opposite ends of their careers, because they deserve each other.

I think we already have the answer to how Rossi will deal with no setup sharing because that's already been happening for the latter half of the season. Decent race pace and an inability to get the qualifying tyres working well. This year was his last chance though, you won't be seeing Rossi fighting for the title again.

Originally Posted by Razzzor

But why is Lorenzo anti-Rossi? The thumbs down at the podium, trying to put a stop on the appeal, they're supposed to be teammates but they seem to get on worse than Vettel/Webber did!

Lorenzo thought he had seen off Rossi after he left for Ducati, only to find him quickly back at Yamaha re-establishing all his old links with the personnel (for all of Jorge's immense skill and dedication, he has never what you would call a "people person"!) and vying for No. 1 status in the team. Now that's not a problem if he can keep Rossi behind, but for the first 1/3 of the season Rossi could seemingly do no wrong and made almost every call correctly to capitalize on Lorenzo's errors. You can understand his frustration, if not his responses at times.

It's an odd one with Jorge - he is at his best on his own, metaphorically and literally. But even though he had the pace over Rossi (as the stats point out) Rossi definitely has a needle stuck in Lorenzo's head. It is ironic that after watching Rossi create trouble for himself by not keeping quiet, Lorenzo ... decides not to keep quiet. Time will tell if there are any ramifications from Sepang but the first thing that comes into my head is what happens when Lorenzo is in Rossi's position and a younger faster teammate is challenging him for the title? We've now seen that he is willing to forgo the team's best interests to further his own.

Originally Posted by gomick

Does it say much for the depth of MotoGP if Rossi can finish 4th from last place on the grid?
Congrats to Jorge, definitely faster than Rossi all year. Pity Marquez didn't have a go at him for the win, he would normally have a go from a long way back - maybe he was protecting?
Congrats to Danny Kent too

That's a very diplomatic way of putting it!

But you have found the elephant in the room. MotoGP is basically a contest between two factory teams and their four riders and everyone else is entertainment-based filler who intermittently get involved. If it were a more open contest the looming spectre of Rossi departing would not be a problem because there would be other rider(s) to become the "face(s)" of the series. That's (IMO) why everyone was so hyped about Simoncelli even though he didn't really have the pace to be right at the sharp end. It's not Lorenzo's/Marquez's/Pedrosa's fault they are not as popular (and therefore as marketable) as Rossi, but when he leaves a lot of fans will go with him. You're free to think that getting rid of Rossi's more fervent fans is a good thing (and I won't defend them), but that will ultimately mean less money for Dorna who aren't in the rudest financial health as it is.

[Razzzor]

Yeah fans go on about how great the racing is in Moto GP, but I've found it dull for years. I've even skipped watching entire seasons (Marquez' title season) just because it's not that interesting to tune in to see which factory Honda or Yamaha got the setup right this time. And it's really only between 3 riders anyway, Pedrosa just doesn't have it anymore and I'm amazed he won twice this year.

That's barely different to F1's Mercedes vs Mercedes driver, the only big difference is that bikes can pass one another.

SBK might only have 3-4 manufacturers in the winners circle per year, but at least the field is much closer. If Yamaha or Honda manage to pull ahead of the other in performance next year, it'll be a bore. We're lucky Honda struggled a bit this year and Marc had some falls, so it gave the Yamaha riders a bit of a chance, because Marquez could have easily had another year of dominance.

The other point I wanted to make is it's a sad state of affairs if everyone dislikes Lorenzo, dislikes Marquez and even Rossi has become a bit disliked by some this year... who wants to tune in to watch 3 d--kheads race it out? lol. It would be like tuning in to Nascar and knowing it'll only be either Brad, Logano or Kyle Busch winning the race. With JJ finishing behind them.

[steve_r]

The last few races have been fascinating, but to be honest none of the top 3 guys have come out of this looking very good.

Rossi lost the plot, and threw away the championship thanks to his antics. He has antagonised Marquez so much, that if he was not trying to help Lorenzo in the first place, you can be damn sure that he was by the end. I have lost so much respect for him.

Marquez I think was probably playing games to help Lorenzo win. This is inexcusable. However, Rossi has only made this worse.

Lorenzo - I guess he is the worthy champion. Having Marquez as his rear gunner at the last race surely is embarrassing for him?

Hopefully next year none of them win the championship .

[Artur]

Originally Posted by J Jay

It's not Lorenzo's/Marquez's/Pedrosa's fault they are not as popular (and therefore as marketable) as Rossi, but when he leaves a lot of fans will go with him. You're free to think that getting rid of Rossi's more fervent fans is a good thing (and I won't defend them), but that will ultimately mean less money for Dorna who aren't in the rudest financial health as it is.

Well, Lorenzo and Pedrosa doesn't present themselves as friendly guys even remotely as much as Rossi have always done.

I think Dorna is doing fine. The tracks are always filled with huge crowds, they have good tv presence on several countries and, unlike with Uncle Bernard's little circus, their rating are not falling apart. They are also not short of countries interested in hosting events, so Dorna seems pretty fine with their money collecting sources.

When Rossi retires, I think we'll see lots of people go(at least we'll get rid of the worst of the fanboys) but MotoGP/Dorna sooner or later would have to deal with their real fanbase, the one which involves only those who like bike racing and not those who just sporadically watch some event because of some circusntances(rider fanboyism, controversies or something else)

[littleman]

I think the Marquez/Rossi spat has disguised the real demons Valentino was fighting against and likely prompted his Sepang meltdown.

This season, after 3 races, Rossi held a 29 point advantage over Lorenzo.
So what, you may say.

Well, 10 races later and with only 5 remaining, he still held a 25 point advantage over his team mate. How could the GOAT let a lead like that be overhauled.....and by a rider on an identical bike?

Clearly, Rossi knew Lorenzo had the beating of him and had to finish right behind him, as a minimum, if he was going to have any chance of taking the title.

Marquez was the only rider who could prevent this from happening..and did.
Unable to beat either Spaniard by speed alone....his frustration boiled over.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by littleman

Clearly, Rossi knew Lorenzo had the beating of him and had to finish right behind him, as a minimum, if he was going to have any chance of taking the title.

Originally Posted by J Jay

But there is an aside to why he spoke out - he knew that Lorenzo had enough pace to overhaul the points gap, interference or not. If he had been more patient with Marquez in the Sepang race he still would have finished 3rd at best, and keeping his qualifying position at Valencia wouldn't have got him any further up than 4th based on his pace throughout the weekend. The cracks were definitely showing by Aragorn; Pedrosa rode out of his skin but he would not have taken 2nd if Rossi had the pace and nous expected of him. Ditto for PI - regardless of what Marquez was or wasn't doing, Rossi should have left something to be able to get past Iannone in the closing laps. Those seven points would have been enough to see the title decided in his favour.

So Rossi would still have had to rely on the Hondas to get past Lorenzo. Having rewatched the race, Marquez is fooling absolutely no-one about his race strategy but I reckon it would still be a tall order for both of them to have made it past in the closing laps (Lorenzo was quicker from T7 to T13 and the Yamaha had enough to keep the Hondas behind on the straight). The title was gone already, Rossi just put the verbal nails in the coffin.

Beat you by 29 hours and 44 minutes

No decision at this level is entirely impulsive. Rossi knew he needed something extra after failing to capitalize at Misano, Aragorn and PI. It seems harsh to say that given how consistent he has been but it does show how much slower he knew he was. Eventually either Lorenzo or Marquez had to get their act together, and when Jorge did he was simply quicker.

Originally Posted by Artur

I think Dorna is doing fine. The tracks are always filled with huge crowds, they have good tv presence on several countries and, unlike with Uncle Bernard's little circus, their rating are not falling apart. They are also not short of countries interested in hosting events, so Dorna seems pretty fine with their money collecting sources.

When Rossi retires, I think we'll see lots of people go(at least we'll get rid of the worst of the fanboys) but MotoGP/Dorna sooner or later would have to deal with their real fanbase, the one which involves only those who like bike racing and not those who just sporadically watch some event because of some circusntances(rider fanboyism, controversies or something else)

Huge crowds: And a significant proportion are there to see only one rider. As the commentators never fail to remind us, "every race is Rossi's home race". Although this is anecdotal, from attending a few Silverstone races I cannot say otherwise - VR is still the big draw. So those numbers and their receipts will drop a lot when he retires, as will the countries that will want to host MotoGP, although just being cheaper than F1 in general will help to keep their interest. However there will always be good crowds at Iberian/Mediterranean races so at least MotoGP has a strong European presence to fall back on (that F1 no longer has). If Dorna can rein in their global ambitions then this will provide a solid platform to keep MotoGP running.

Good TV presence: Unfortunately, just like Uncle Bernard Dorna have put short term gain (moving away from free-to-air channels) ahead of long term stability, and the viewing figures have dropped in the same way F1's home audiences did. And if the racing is pretty naff* - as is rather common with only 3/4 bikes in contention for victories - people will stop paying to watch, like I did this year even though my favourite rider led the championship until the last race

*Relatively speaking, of course. Even the most turgid bike race will still provide more action than a good number of top-class car races. But their "real fanbase" as you say will have these higher expectations than those who are only fans of certain riders or who want to know what all the fuss is all about.

[S griffin]

When Rossi made the original comment he had a smile on his face and neither Jorge and Marc seemed to take it seriously. And he's since admitted he got frustrated in Sepang. It's a shame what seemed impossible a couple of years ago, winning the title, got so close and was denied. Seems Lorenzo's speed is just that bit better, but was still consistent enough up to the last two races.

Pedrosa though has just got on with it. His return to form has been epic, shame he's as injury prone as Rafa Nadal and Michael Owen.

Well done to Danny Kent, the second time a Brit has ended a world championship drought this year, the other being Kris Meeke ending a 13 year wait for a British winner in WRC. And well done Oliveira for being a good sport

[Artur]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Good TV presence: Unfortunately, just like Uncle Bernard Dorna have put short term gain (moving away from free-to-air channels) ahead of long term stability, and the viewing figures have dropped in the same way F1's home audiences did. And if the racing is pretty naff* - as is rather common with only 3/4 bikes in contention for victories - people will stop paying to watch, like I did this year even though my favourite rider led the championship until the last race

The 2015 MotoGP season has come to a nail-biting conclusion in Valencia with Jorge Lorenzo winning the championship at the last opportunity! Controversial, tense, thrilling, many superlatives can describe this year. It also brings to an end BT Sport’s second season of covering MotoGP, having taken over the rights from the BBC. Viewing figures have increased significantly year-on-year, and whilst they are still down on BBC’s numbers by some margin, more people have been following BT’s coverage.

https://f1broadcasting.wordpress.com...-2015-verdict/

Finale with record on BTSport:
https://f1broadcasting.wordpress.com...k-on-bt-sport/

Later today he will post the ITV4 highligths numbers

Numbers are obviously lower than on BBC but at least they are not dropping on the pay channel

[J Jay]

And if those figures are matched or bettered the year after Rossi quits I'll buy you a drink (seriously!)

That's good you hear though, BT Sport have put a lot into their coverage so even if it didn't grab me I'm glad they are getting better numbers year on year. I don't mind being proved wrong if it means MotoGP is doing well commercially.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by Artur

phew, very refreshing to once again have it confirmed to me that this forum has the most inteligent members of all of the several ones that I have come accross throught several years(~15years) using the internet!!!

Even the Rossi fans here are all reasonable and rationale. The amount of bitterness, hatred and nonsensical stuff that I have seen in some places is frustrating, even if totally expected/predictable.

Rossi have always appeared like a friendly good fellow across the tv cameras, so, it's perfectly understable why so many people cheers for and likes the guy. Conversely, Lorenzo have always appeared like a grumpy, crabby guy, so, it's equally understable(or, perhaps better said, expected) why so many people dislikes, or even hates, him.

But people, sadly, let their resentment have the best of them and end up with irrational thoughts towards some happenings.

I realize I'm a bit a late answering to this but I agree, half the time it just devolves into retarded Spain vs Italy ****ing matches elsewhere and I don't even follow MotoGP that much.

[wnut]

^^^ Gent on the right of photo is just pure class!


Charge much for the facilities did they?