Historic Racing Today

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

take a step back
or even better: two

first question:
is Historic Amateur Racing alone among Amateur Racing in having less and less spectators for the smaler clubbie events ?
answer: to my knowledge, no !
I went Fun Cup racing two years ago, and there were very very few spectators, (admittedly in November at Donington, not excatly a day at the sunny beach)
so its not Historic racing that suffer specifically
its just that people dont go to racetracks just to see some cars
there has to be a good reason

second question:
can Historic racing really expect to be different from other amateur sports events ?
answer: NOOO !
would you expect people to come in large crowds to see you daughter playing hockey or tennis ?
certainly not,
so why should the bother to go and watch amateurs race cars ?
so you say: because car racing is more spectacular
well, yes and no
my son plays Polo, which is a spectacular sport
but very few people apart from family will watch a small clubbie Polo tournament, and they certainly would expect to get in free
Polo is largely an amateuer sport in Europe,
events can draw large paying crowds if properly and professionally promoted, by somebody who expects to make money
only difference is that Polo events draw in more sponsorship

but by and large
the mechanisms in Polo are the same as in Historic Racing

times might have been different
and when Historic Racing was new
and exiting to see certain cars out on the track for the first time in decades
it might have been easier to draw crowds
some classes such as HGPCA even got starting money

but that was yesterday or yesteryear

we live today

dont get me wrong, I like having spectators and enthusiasts at the track
i try to do my part to make them feel welcome
(not 10 minutes before i get into the car, of course)
its just that i dont expect that
its more an added bonus

Rudolf

Thats the truth an all!!!

[chunder]

The thing is I don't think realistic fans are bothered about dropping spectator numbers are they?

That has been the case for years. And has been the case in motorsport for years. The big numbers are in one off events like Goodwood, the Classic, the American day at Brands that Palmer has tapped into.

You do a few of those and people put them in their calendar until they lose interest, the kids grow up, they find something else to do.

There is little chance a normal HSCC or CSCC meeting would ever be able to tap into those sort of people in more than a handful of cases.

You start with the simple things, get more people competing if you can, then the racing gets better and better, then they bring their mates to watch, then they realise how good the racing is, it's relatively cheap to watch or get into, and it expands from there.

At the moment none of those things happen.

There are countless people out there who would compete if they could afford it and the hurdles were not so ridiculous.

Yes, some sports are expensive, a poster talked about polo, a rather rich mans pursuit, but the similarities are there. You need something to haul it with, somewhere to keep all that stuff and money to maintain it.

You could delete one or two of those expenses with a bit of imagination from a very forward thinking person or governing body, but then the expense is passed on in a bundle rather than individual parts. its not like kicking about a football or throwing a basketball around is it sadly.

For me the initial look over the fence is not ushered on enough, too many barriers, too mush initial outlay. That's all. Not sure it can ever be better, and that's sad.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

take a step back
or even better: two

first question:
is Historic Amateur Racing alone among Amateur Racing in having less and less spectators for the smaler clubbie events ?
answer: to my knowledge, no !
I went Fun Cup racing two years ago, and there were very very few spectators, (admittedly in November at Donington, not excatly a day at the sunny beach)
so its not Historic racing that suffer specifically
its just that people dont go to racetracks just to see some cars
there has to be a good reason

second question:
can Historic racing really expect to be different from other amateur sports events ?
answer: NOOO !
would you expect people to come in large crowds to see you daughter playing hockey or tennis ?
certainly not,
so why should the bother to go and watch amateurs race cars ?
so you say: because car racing is more spectacular
well, yes and no
my son plays Polo, which is a spectacular sport
but very few people apart from family will watch a small clubbie Polo tournament, and they certainly would expect to get in free
Polo is largely an amateuer sport in Europe,
events can draw large paying crowds if properly and professionally promoted, by somebody who expects to make money
only difference is that Polo events draw in more sponsorship

but by and large
the mechanisms in Polo are the same as in Historic Racing

times might have been different
and when Historic Racing was new
and exiting to see certain cars out on the track for the first time in decades
it might have been easier to draw crowds
some classes such as HGPCA even got starting money

but that was yesterday or yesteryear

we live today

dont get me wrong, I like having spectators and enthusiasts at the track
i try to do my part to make them feel welcome
(not 10 minutes before i get into the car, of course)
its just that i dont expect that
its more an added bonus

Rudolf

Well said and should be sent to every event organsier and should be read by the increasing numbers of people launching even more events...

[Lancsbreaker]

Interestingly yesterday's CSCC meeting at Oulton seemed to be pretty well attended - plenty of cars around the infield - and judging by the queues for the (admittedly slow) food outlets at lunchtime - when there was a 20-minute queue to get served - there were more people than the circuit had expected.

Of course most of the grids were pretty full, which helps to make for an attractive meeting.

[chunder]

Interesting, was the meeting promoted at all do you know?

Flyers or local ads?

[delta]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

take a step back
or even better: two

first question:
is Historic Amateur Racing alone among Amateur Racing in having less and less spectators for the smaler clubbie events ?
answer: to my knowledge, no !
I went Fun Cup racing two years ago, and there were very very few spectators, (admittedly in November at Donington, not excatly a day at the sunny beach)
so its not Historic racing that suffer specifically
its just that people dont go to racetracks just to see some cars
there has to be a good reason

second question:
can Historic racing really expect to be different from other amateur sports events ?
answer: NOOO !
would you expect people to come in large crowds to see you daughter playing hockey or tennis ?
certainly not,
so why should the bother to go and watch amateurs race cars ?
so you say: because car racing is more spectacular
well, yes and no
my son plays Polo, which is a spectacular sport
but very few people apart from family will watch a small clubbie Polo tournament, and they certainly would expect to get in free
Polo is largely an amateuer sport in Europe,
events can draw large paying crowds if properly and professionally promoted, by somebody who expects to make money
only difference is that Polo events draw in more sponsorship

but by and large
the mechanisms in Polo are the same as in Historic Racing

times might have been different
and when Historic Racing was new
and exiting to see certain cars out on the track for the first time in decades
it might have been easier to draw crowds
some classes such as HGPCA even got starting money

but that was yesterday or yesteryear

we live today

dont get me wrong, I like having spectators and enthusiasts at the track
i try to do my part to make them feel welcome
(not 10 minutes before i get into the car, of course)
its just that i dont expect that
its more an added bonus

Rudolf

Agreed as well, You may laugh but I blame Sunday shopping. Hope you change your mind and keep posting on Tenths Rudolf.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by delta

Agreed as well, You may laugh but I blame Sunday shopping. Hope you change your mind and keep posting on Tenths Rudolf.

I wonder if it might also be connected with F1 etc. becoming televised sports, people are more used to watching circuit racing on tv rather than in real life.
Rallying gets less tv coverage and the fans seem more likely to attend an event (even though they see a lot less of it!).

As usual Rudolf's comments make sense but I'm not sure the age of the cars is a factor, when historic racing really picked up in the 80s many of the cars weren't that old - lots were around 20 years old.
Before that, when the VSCC started some cars (like 250Fs) were only about 10 years past their front line career.
So, many of the cars had been seen in action relatively recently - but only by those who had gone to the circuits.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

I wonder if it might also be connected with F1 etc. becoming televised sports, people are more used to watching circuit racing on tv rather than in real life.
Rallying gets less tv coverage and the fans seem more likely to attend an event (even though they see a lot less of it!).

As usual Rudolf's comments make sense but I'm not sure the age of the cars is a factor, when historic racing really picked up in the 80s many of the cars weren't that old - lots were around 20 years old.
Before that, when the VSCC started some cars (like 250Fs) were only about 10 years past their front line career.
So, many of the cars had been seen in action relatively recently - but only by those who had gone to the circuits.

Age of cars might be a factor. I believe the growing interest in classic cars for buyers is the late 70's to mid/late 80's - every days cars (goods examples thereof ) are making quite big prices £65K for a 80's Ford Escort RS Turbo at the NEC last year and £36k for an '86 Ford Capri a few months ago - for example. If you think that people between say 40 and 60 who perhaps have fewer financial commitments, have made some money and want to spend it on cars they remember from their youth, or their first car or their fathers cars, etc, etc - this is the moving market.

If this is mirrored in classic racing, this shows why the Super Tourers and Group A cars are so popular, same age group watching and now buying cars - look at the ST car prices now, 12 years ago you could barely give one away.

So perhaps, the 60's cars and earlier just don't resonate with todays spectators so much at club level (i.e. not a major event with all the attractions) as they don't have the emotional attachment to the car or the brand??

And of course, interest in cars in general is going down as they are increasingly seen as functional items to get from a to b.

[terence]

Originally Posted by delta

Agreed as well, You may laugh but I blame Sunday shopping. Hope you change your mind and keep posting on Tenths Rudolf.

Dont think its a laughing matter Iain,you could well be right.Spectator crowds here for ANY event on a Sunday-no shops are open apart from cafes and restaurants.

[midgetman]

It's not just shopping. There are so many competing activities - many families e.g. are taking kids to football matches, horse riding WHY, with the dads lined up as taxi they can't go and watch racing (to be sterotypical about it)

[terence]

So,according to the news,its a great time to sell your classics to overses buyers.Barn find (arent they all)Etype making stupid money-good or bad for UK restoration companies?

[Colin McKay]

I can put my E-type in a barn if it will help to sell it

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

I can put my E-type in a barn if it will help to sell it

I think that for this to work properly Colin, someone else then has to find it in there...

[bauble]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I think that for this to work properly Colin, someone else then has to find it in there...

Shouldn't be hard to arrange!

[grantp]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I think that for this to work properly Colin, someone else then has to find it in there...

With provenance that that is has been in the same family for 80 years and was "dry stored" in 1968 and immediately forgotten for the best part of 50 years.

[Colin McKay]

Originally Posted by grantp

immediately forgotten for the best part of 50 years.

There's an apochryphal tale of a Stanguellini FJ lent to another owner to help with his restoration......a few years later owner no2 rang owner no1 (not a million miles from me) to ask where he would like his Stanguellini returned. "What Stanguellini?"

[terence]

Originally Posted by grantp

With provenance that that is has been in the same family for 80 years and was "dry stored" in 1968 and immediately forgotten for the best part of 50 years.

One for the future then Grant.😉

[grantp]

Originally Posted by terence

One for the future then Grant.😉

Not in a true fantasy world Terence!

Numbers mean nothing in a true fantasy.

Especially the numbers on the bank transfer.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by chunder

Interesting, was the meeting promoted at all do you know?

Flyers or local ads?

Not that I know of - I live within 50 miles or so of Oulton and wasn't aware of any promotion, but there could have been some local radio stuff I suppose. CSCC does have a good reputation for good grids and good meeting organisation, so regular spectators would know that. Might have helped.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by grantp

With provenance that that is has been in the same family for 80 years and was "dry stored" in 1968 and immediately forgotten for the best part of 50 years.

And dressed up with the same cobwebs and dust as featured on most barn find cars at auctions...
It's amazing what the props department can do these days...