Would you buy a Hybrid?

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by chunder

Can you link a diesel to a hybrid system?

Yep - Citroen DS5 Hybrid4.

Seriously considering one of these (used) when I decide to change cars. Just need to be convinced of the longevity of the batteries and drive train as it seems to be a complicated way of saving £100 each year on the VED compared to the standard manual 2.0 Diesel versions.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by chunder

Seems diesels are not quite as clean as poeple thought or governments, nicely done makers for getting fleets and the government on your side, managing to get UK supliers to make diesel dearer and now apparently puling the wool over peoples eyes as to how clean diesels are in terms of ar pollution!

Its not as simple as that though is it.

There are two big differences between petrol and deisel emissions, CO2 and carbon particulates. A decade or two ago the fact that diesel cars emitted substantially lower CO2 was considered far more important than their higher particulate emissions, hence better for the environment and encouraged by governments. In the intervening years two things have changed. Petrol cars have got more efficient which means there is less CO2 advantage for diesel, and the health implications of carbon particulates from diesel have become better understood (it's nasty!). This is why the balance has shifted, especially for urban areas where there are lots of cars.

Particulates are essentially a local issue you emit them and people breathe them in the immediate area, they don't persist in the environment or travel far as rain scrubs them out of the air. CO2 of course is a long term addition to the global atmosphere and screws the climate for the whole planet. Perhaps which you choose depends if you are more worried about poisoning your neighbours or wrecking the climage for your children and grand children

I know NOX tends to be worse from diesel too but I'm not aware that it has been driving the changed perception, I could be wrong though.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Its not as simple as that though is it.

There are two big differences between petrol and deisel emissions, CO2 and carbon particulates. A decade or two ago the fact that diesel cars emitted substantially lower CO2 was considered far more important than their higher particulate emissions, hence better for the environment and encouraged by governments. In the intervening years two things have changed. Petrol cars have got more efficient which means there is less CO2 advantage for diesel, and the health implications of carbon particulates from diesel have become better understood (it's nasty!). This is why the balance has shifted, especially for urban areas where there are lots of cars.

Particulates are essentially a local issue you emit them and people breathe them in the immediate area, they don't persist in the environment or travel far as rain scrubs them out of the air. CO2 of course is a long term addition to the global atmosphere and screws the climate for the whole planet. Perhaps which you choose depends if you are more worried about poisoning your neighbours or wrecking the climage for your children and grand children

I know NOX tends to be worse from diesel too but I'm not aware that it has been driving the changed perception, I could be wrong though.

I can remember being told 50 years ago that diesel was extremely poisonous to stick your hands in!
How the same stuff burnt can be any good for the environment just beggars belief!
CO2 is just so poisonous!

There is this mindless targeting of CO2 emissions when what should actually be targeted are the really poisonous emissions.
CH4 has a global warming potential of 62 over a 20 year period while CO2
is rated as 1, yet CH4 is seen as a "green" fuel! Really!

[Gaz170]

The type of driving I do daily would be well suited to a hybrid or even fully electric car, however the cost of purchase between them and an efficient 4 cylinder petrol car was too great to justify.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Matt]

My daily driver is a Civic Hybrid.

Not bad at all.

[GORDON STREETER]

I would think that in the next few years manufacturers will drop diesel cars altogether and in the longer term commercial vehicles as well. I can also see that petrol ICE vehicles will ultimately be banned from city/town centres. However being the age I am I don't think it will affect me too much but I would consider an electric powered car for popping into town, as the roads are so crowded it's virtually impossible to go more than 20mph most of the time anyway !

[chunder]

I live in Luton (sadly) and the propensity of hybrids namely Priuses here is staggering.

Two reasons: a) Not one white person drives one as they are all taxis obviously for the airport. It used to be Octavias hence if you look on Ebay scores of them have done 200000 miles and still command a high price, bless em.

And b) in the main reason that they think driving a small capacity engine that uses petrol is far cheaper than a diesel that more efficiently uses diesel. It us in some ways, but you lose space,a nd they lok hideous!

The ONLY reason they use them is coz they pay little road tax, as for cabbing they a re fairly poor, not much space. Its the cheap tax that swings it.

Gotta love putting price before anything in car choice, especially when it's as dumb as that!!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by chunder

a) Not one white person drives one

In what way does the race of the driver have any relevance to the rest of your post?

[chunder]

Have you ever been to Luton?

I know exactly what I was saying and why I said it. It is a fact of life where I live, so please don't get all politically correct.

[auroan]

I'd buy a hybrid, but only if it didn't look like one, and was the same price as an equiv powered petrol/diesel car.

Audi A3 e-tron is an example.... just a shame about the price.

[bella]

Originally Posted by chunder

a) Not one white person drives one as they are all taxis obviously for the airport. It used to be Octavias hence if you look on Ebay scores of them have done 200000 miles and still command a high price, bless em.

outside of the cabbie orbit, i do see a fair number of what are obviously white tree huggers driving them, though in real life the only people i know with a hybrid have a leaf...

i maintain my original stance on these - the batteries are still foul for the environment which really defeats the object. i've had a baby toyota thing (maybe an auris?) in hybrid format as a hire car and not only were the fuel figures naff it was the daftest piece of nonsense i've ever had the misfortune to drive. and i've had a suzuki sj413, so i'm familiar with nonsense

[wnut]

In Australia Toyota are selling / trying to sell hybrid Corollas for the same price as the standard Corolla, think the manufacturers have been found out as to how expense greenwashing cars is for the consumer?

[Akrapovic]

I'd buy a hybrid (or full electric car) under 2 circumstances -

1 - It looked and acted like a normal car
2 - It actually provided a fuel saving

Electric cars and hybrids are often (rightly) laughed at because they look ridiculous. Cars like the Audi A3 E-Tron and Tesla Model S finally bring normal looks to the market. I don't want to drive around in a golf cart with a Nissan badge on it. I want a real car.

The original Prius in the real world was often only bringing 50mpg. My half broken 10 year old petrol Fiesta can get 45mpg. So why would I buy the expensive hybrid for 5mpg? With some small cars getting upwards of 60mpg, a hybrid doesn't seem completely logical at this stage.

I want a normal car that provides a fuel saving. I'm not interested in emissions and saving the planet. The 10 largest container ships in the world have higher emissions than every car in the world combined. The aerospace industry isn't much better. Hammering on the every day person to reduce emissions to save the world is meaningless when industry continues to operate the way it does.

[chunder]

I know someone who did regular 150 miles a day in an older Prius, he had a little Toyota aswell can't remember the name, but got better mileage out of that.

Battery pack went, cost him a fortune to replace it, but he did get good resale on it, but it seems if you do high mileage in them the pack goes early, he was told this by Toyota. Wanted to stay with Toyota but they couldn't offer him a decent deal on anything

He bought a little 1.3 Swift packed to the rafters with goodies for less than 10 grand, nicer to drive, got better gas mileage, far better equipment, more space, and what he saved on gas made up for the negligible tax bonus.

Resale would be poor, but the new Swift holds its value really well so perhaps not as bad as you think.

I think in the UK they are still a novelty new, they are over priced and second hand in a lot of places are being snapped up by cabbies, certainly where I live.

To make them more buyable they need to take the hit simply put.

[Akrapovic]

Why are they so popular with taxi drivers? It appears as though the MPG gain is not significant, and the reliability is not there yet. Those Skoda Octavias were used because they'd do 250,000 miles without a serious issue. You won't get that from a Prius. Are these hybrid taxis being subsidised by councils?

[chunder]

They are popular in Luton because there is a cottage industry here looking after them because of the airport and the cabbing.

Always been a lot of Japanese parts blokes here as it's Luton and a lot of Asians buy Japanese cars, until they get money then Mercs and Beemers!

They are fairly cheap to run, but it's mainly the cheap road tax, a bit silly, but it's a trend that has caught on.

They are not that roomy or economical, but it's the tax that they love, as I said before.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Why are they so popular with taxi drivers? It appears as though the MPG gain is not significant, and the reliability is not there yet. Those Skoda Octavias were used because they'd do 250,000 miles without a serious issue. You won't get that from a Prius. Are these hybrid taxis being subsidised by councils?

In Australia, the Hybrid guts of a Prius are installed in a Toyota Camry body and becomes the weapon of choice here for both hire cars and taxi cabs.

I have been in one recently with 750,000km on it.. and the owner/driver reckoned it was only on its 2nd battery pack!

Our rules have cabs not being able to be more than 6 years old, so this one was still a year or so away from its end.

Would hate to buy one 2nd hand.. a cab that is.. although that would be true of petrol or diesel driven ones as well.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chunder

They are popular in Luton because there is a cottage industry here looking after them because of the airport and the cabbing.

Always been a lot of Japanese parts blokes here as it's Luton and a lot of Asians buy Japanese cars, until they get money then Mercs and Beemers!

They are fairly cheap to run, but it's mainly the cheap road tax, a bit silly, but it's a trend that has caught on.

They are not that roomy or economical, but it's the tax that they love, as I said before.

Bet you that there is some special discount from the manufacturers to the cabbies available on the hybrids from the manufacturers.
Are there government incentives paid to the cabbies if they are driving hybrids?


Here we go, mystery of hybrid taxis cleared up courtesy of gurgler:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/g...ssion-vehicles

Govt paying hundreds of millions of pounds to purchase hybrids, up to 35% off the price of your taxi.

Nothing like our political masters squandering your tax contributions against the nearest wall.

[chunder]

There is a reason why there are countless tens of them in Luton.

But it is nothing to do with governments, it is far more to do with cultural stereotypes and certain races of people who are more obsessed with money than just about anything else thinking they are saving money.

Nothing more

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chunder

There is a reason why there are countless tens of them in Luton.

But it is nothing to do with governments, it is far more to do with cultural stereotypes and certain races of people who are more obsessed with money than just about anything else thinking they are saving money.

Nothing more

You sure there, they're usually the first guys on that type of incentive!

[Colin McKay]

The eco credentials don't add up, we all know that, but in the UK the company car tax regime is hugely biased towards hybrids and plug-ins. We have had Lexus Rx400h's for 11 years now. They're fast, comfortable, utterly reliable and save a fortune on the income tax bill, I mean £1000's every year. When we got our first one a friend bought a petrol XC90, arguably a similar size and spec of car. They got 16mpg round the country lanes, we get 28 so there is also an economical argument there.

2 years ago we bought a Mitsubishi Outlander plug-in for one of our managers. It's horrible to drive and to get anywhere near the claimed distance on the battery you can't use the heater or air con! The 20 mile commute uses 2 litres of petrol or 1 full charge. The electricity costs about 70% of the petrol, but you end up using both if you want to be warm/cool! On longer runs the leccy is soon used up and the charge points on motorways are always out of order. Not a fan of these!