[Official] Italian Grand Prix 2017: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[Aysedasi]

I must admit I saw that as entirely Kevin's fault. He must have known he had zero chance of holding the position and should have given in with some grace instead of risking both their races....

[S griffin]

I still think Max should have left the required car's length on the racing line, as he was taking a risk there. I agree it was Kevin's fault though

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by S griffin

What a drive by Lewis, the Honey Badger and Stroll, all on top of their cars today. Ocon as well

As for the Verstappen/Magnussen incident, I feel Kevin was late into the corner, but still Max maybe should have left a bit of leeway, as Kevin could have creamed into the back of him

Nah Stroll only there because his Dad has more money than he can count ......some say! Good effort from the kid I say

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Nah Stroll only there because his Dad has more money than he can count ......some say! Good effort from the kid I say

Stroll had me asking a question about racing, even at the level of f1. How much is nature vs nurture? Could a small amount of talent be cultivated into greatness through heavy training/investment? Or does it just so happen that stroll is uber talented amd happens to come from one of the few families rich enough to get him there? His performance in the wet in qualifying was outstanding. On a higher level than most on the grid. And that has me wondering if talent is secondary to training.

[bella]

before you descend into a full existential crisis it's worth pointing out that theres been drivers over the years whose dads have taken a similar approach to their sons careers but who just didn't have the ability stroll does. most recently max chilton.

norris has had a similar motorsport education but all you really hear about him is "wow" not "yeah but how much has his dad spent?".

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by bella

before you descend into a full existential crisis it's worth pointing out that theres been drivers over the years whose dads have taken a similar approach to their sons careers but who just didn't have the ability stroll does. most recently max chilton.

norris has had a similar motorsport education but all you really hear about him is "wow" not "yeah but how much has his dad spent?".

Well, like with Chilton, to "fail" to the levels he's reached could mean he had talent above most, or that the needed natural starting talent could really be quite low and that heavy investment can get someone with limited talent to a high level, or that he was another who just happened to have both natural talent and money.

Like, by comparison you could say Chilton has not been successful. But he can reasonably hold his own in one of the top few open wheel series on the planet. I would say anyone starting down that profession could count that as successful. But did he get to that point because he was born with a talent for the sport or because he was given all the resources and training needed from a young age to train in that profession?

In the end, I'm having a hard time believing that the top .01% in the world talent-wise just so happen to almost exclusively come from riches. This makes me wonder how much of it can be taught, and makes me think it is largely a teachable talent.

I know, pretty long train of thought just because stroll had a nice qualifying day....

[newlaprecord]

Originally Posted by bella

before you descend into a full existential crisis it's worth pointing out that theres been drivers over the years whose dads have taken a similar approach to their sons careers but who just didn't have the ability stroll does. most recently max chilton.

norris has had a similar motorsport education but all you really hear about him is "wow" not "yeah but how much has his dad spent?".

even more recently palmer

[newlaprecord]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Do Haas only emply drivers who whine and winge?

good point, none of them earned any complaint rights againts max i felt. magnussen in particular was just glaringly clumsy. thats all there was to it.

furthermore, massa should have been penalized, he 100% did not leave enough space to a car entering a corner being ahead of him. (and im not even dutch, but this time i say max was correct in all 3 coming togethers)

[bauble]

It might be that Verstappen's somewhat aggressive style, while great for his fans, might not sit too well with his fellow drivers, who may well not like to encourage his forceful moves.
Once you give way to such behaviour it becomes the norm, as Rosberg discovered.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by bauble

It might be that Verstappen's somewhat aggressive style, while great for his fans, might not sit too well with his fellow drivers, who may well not like to encourage his forceful moves.
Once you give way to such behaviour it becomes the norm, as Rosberg discovered.

Indeed. Sooner or later the others were going to start closing the door on him!!

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by bauble

It might be that Verstappen's somewhat aggressive style, while great for his fans, might not sit too well with his fellow drivers, who may well not like to encourage his forceful moves.
Once you give way to such behaviour it becomes the norm, as Rosberg discovered.

Excellent point, if the stewards have no problem with how Max drives then I see no reason why other drivers can't give it back to him.

[djinvicta]

I can't see that. Very Schumi/Senna ish. As an aggressive F1 driver. Sorry, but it's the only way to assert yourself as a youngster. If not, you become "another" rookie. Other drivers are aware and stay clear. I like it..provides some excitement in a sport that needs it now.

[Aysedasi]

Agreed. F1 does actually need a driver or two who will go for the overtake that the Mr. Nice Guys wouldn't risk because that's not very gentlemanly. Of course, not necessarily in the same team......

[Compromised]

I don't think anyone is saying Max is too aggressive (yes very Sennaesque), more that other drivers now known what is needed to battle him, hence the multiple incidents we saw where Max was involved. Nothing dirty, nothing illegal, but nothing is stopping other drivers adopting his approach, whether Max protests or not

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Agreed. F1 does actually need a driver or two who will go for the overtake that the Mr. Nice Guys wouldn't risk because that's not very gentlemanly. Of course, not necessarily in the same team......

Well Felipe Massa is surely one of your 'nice guys', Ace, so when he clashes with your Mr Aggressive it illustrates my point rather well.

Personally I have never liked bully boy (despite my name) in any walk of life.

[S griffin]

I agree Max has been close to the edge with his moves, so needs to watch it or it will come back to bite him in time

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I agree Max has been close to the edge with his moves, so needs to watch it or it will come back to bite him in time

That is the risk he and others who do the same run. And he's not yet in the 'league' of those greats for whom people would almost leap out of the way.....

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

That is the risk he and others who do the same run. And he's not yet in the 'league' of those greats for whom people would almost leap out of the way.....

Because they still think he's a cheeky little kid lol!

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Nah Stroll only there because his Dad has more money than he can count ......some say! Good effort from the kid I say

Don't forget he has tested more than any other rookie(with an old car, all payed for by his dad) and even tested twice during the season

he tested in Austin between the Canadian and the Baku GP's and between the Hungarian and Belgian GP he tested at Hockenheim