IMSA Race Petit Le Mans

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

They've had them for years and I've seen them being hit a couple of times, no big deal, it looks way more dramatic than it really is, I don't recall having a FCY called for it the past couple of years.

IMSA/Sebring (and other tracks?) have bigger fish to fry.

No big deal? A 3 or 4ft by 6 to 8ft piece of debris in the middle of the track can cause some severe sh_t to happen, much less a sandbag!

Little fish count to, especially when they cause full course yellows and may cause major havoc/damage.





L.P.

[chernaudi]

To be fair, there have been times like Mosport in '06 where half the tail of an Audi R10 was sitting just to the outside of the racing line, but no yellow (not even a local one) was thrown. Same race in '02 featured a whole Porsche 911 door sitting off line in turn one just barely into the grass.

We've also seen cautions thrown, too, just to sweep tire marbles off the track as well at Sebring and Road Atlanta.

But I guess this is a different era compared to the ALMS--you'd be surprised though the years how much debris and crap fell off of/got knocked off cars back then without bringing out yellows. But this is in the era of liability and racing sanctioning bodies don't want to get sued or be asked by teams or drivers to pay for medical bills or for damaged/destroyed race cars.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Those are the braking markers, the adds are on the back. And yes, occasionally they're being taken out. It happens.

The offending signage at PLM were not braking markers though ... just sponsor ads.

I'd imagine the Sebring braking zone markers are made tough to survive winds and such ... they are pretty important particularly if it is raining, and having them blown away in a storm could have serious negative impact on safety.

Not saying they represent the best solution ... but in all my years of visiting Sebring, I have yet to see a fan hurt by debris from a braking marker.

Those sponsor ads, though ... corrugated plastic with printed paper, folded into triangular prisms and weighted with sand bags .... they get blown over by even moderate winds.

Not sure I have ever seen three collected and carried away in one race---maybe cars were going off at places the track management didn't expect.

For instance, until the recent repave, no one went off on driver's right at T5 at Atlanta ... apparently the new tarmac is sticky enough to let drivers take a different line, which occasionally leaves them wedged against the inside wall. (Se #52 PR1 P2 car.)

I have no clue, just spitting out ideas. Placement of those signs, as Akropovic notes, is based on TV camera angles, not potential car trajectories.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

But the merger was needed by both to survive and thrive to the level it is at the moment.

Absolutely. Much as I preferred ALMS to Rolex, the fact is both series were broke and failing.

ALMS had better prototypes, but the "top" class (P1) was either a joke or nonexisteant, merged with P2, for the last couple years. Still better cars than Rolex. Rolex liberally subsidized certain teams ... if ALMS had that kind of money, it wouldn't have had to merge.

None of this is worth debating .... fine to discuss, but to me the important fact is that the new IMSA series is as good as or better than either of its component parts.

NASCAR money and more important, a little NASCAR management seems to be the difference. Fiscal responsibility and an eye towards a good TV package, without getting too far into pandering to the semi-fan .... for sure not "pure" racing, but the audience for That product might number int he low thousands ... and every one of them would have a different definition.

Compromise needn't be evil ... or at least, can be the lesser evil. I'd say IMSA has struck a workable balance between all the many moving pieces.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

The offending signage at PLM were not braking markers though ... just sponsor ads.

Those sponsor ads, though ... corrugated plastic with printed paper, folded into triangular prisms and weighted with sand bags .... they get blown over by even moderate winds.

Not sure I have ever seen three collected and carried away in one race---maybe cars were going off at places the track management didn't expect.

For instance, until the recent repave, no one went off on driver's right at T5 at Atlanta ... apparently the new tarmac is sticky enough to let drivers take a different line, which occasionally leaves them wedged against the inside wall. (Se #52 PR1 P2 car.)

I have no clue, just spitting out ideas. Placement of those signs, as Akropovic notes, is based on TV camera angles, not potential car trajectories.

Having gone to more than a few events at Road Atlanta, those signs are out for almost all IMSA sessions and are often taken out and kicked to the side of the track. Esp last year and the signs after 3, think the Minis took them out every Conti session. We were amazed it took until that late in the race for a single one to get hit, when the Corvette took it out that was the first sign removed at 3-4 all weekend. Think it was just an odd year for catching them just right, they all appeared to be in the usual locations so call it an anomaly and let it go. Two years in a row and a couple cautions maybe we have a talking point but this year? I think that's a bit of the I'm smarter than IMSA management coming through.

[Victor_RO]

Derani and Briscoe having a bit of a Twitter argument about the incident that yielded a penalty for the #22...

https://twitter.com/PipoDerani/statu...42868036005888

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

And a healthy prototype class, whicvh the ALMS lacked the last years,

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Not true.

ALMS 'prototype' teams still in 'prototypes' for 2017 grid: ESM, Mazda, Bar1, PR1, PerfTech and JDC-Miller (ALMS-IMSA lites to Tudor PC) ...

GA: WTR, AXR and Visit Florida.

Next year Core Autosport(ALMS) will be rejoining the P grid after stepping away for 1 year.

o- 2010 ALMS: 6 entries in LMP (Highcroft, Muscle Milk, Dyson, Drayson, Autocon, Intersport)
o- 2011 ALMS: 4 entries in LMP1 (2x Dyson, Muscle Milk, Autocon), 0.5 entries in LMP2 (Level 5).
o- 2012 ALMS: 2 entries in LMP1 (Dyson, Muscle Milk Pickett), 2.5 entries in LMP2 (Level 5, Conquest, Dempsey).
o- 2013 ALMS: 3.5 entries in LMP1 (Dyson, Muscle Milk Pickett, DeltaWing, Rebellion), 2 entries in LMP2 (Level 5, Extreme Speed).

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Derani and Briscoe having a bit of a Twitter argument about the incident that yielded a penalty for the #22...

https://twitter.com/PipoDerani/statu...42868036005888

Briscoe was shown blue flags for both stands prior to the incident. Failing to yield to a prototype before the Esses is dumb enough, the race leader is even dumber and now to argue it?? Come on Briscoe, you were well out of the GTLM fight. Grow up and fight another day, for me HE should have been parked for it. Not penalized, but PARKED, drivers won't learn until they are removed from the event and the team owner reads them the riot act. The BMW was as bad with blocking and screwing up others races after they were laps down from repairs. He has ruined what was an increasingly terrible race, the ending was terrible and the penalties just made it worse. Haven't like the GT, not a good looking car to me, but the way some of the drivers and team have responded to criticism and broken cars has just made me not care if they left the series tomorrow.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

o- 2010 ALMS: 6 entries in LMP (Highcroft, Muscle Milk, Dyson, Drayson, Autocon, Intersport)
o- 2011 ALMS: 4 entries in LMP1 (2x Dyson, Muscle Milk, Autocon), 0.5 entries in LMP2 (Level 5).
o- 2012 ALMS: 2 entries in LMP1 (Dyson, Muscle Milk Pickett), 2.5 entries in LMP2 (Level 5, Conquest, Dempsey).
o- 2013 ALMS: 3.5 entries in LMP1 (Dyson, Muscle Milk Pickett, DeltaWing, Rebellion), 2 entries in LMP2 (Level 5, Extreme Speed).

The assertion you made was that the GA 'prototype' teams/runners were needed to make it successful. Well my response shows that it is the previous ALMS 'prototype' teams/runners who occupy the 'prototype' classes now and moving out of PC next year. Not GA 'prototype' teams. But delving back into that argument is fruitless and my wish is to stay on the now and future entrants and races.






L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Briscoe was shown blue flags for both stands prior to the incident. Failing to yield to a prototype before the Esses is dumb enough, the race leader is even dumber and now to argue it?? Come on Briscoe, you were well out of the GTLM fight. Grow up and fight another day, for me HE should have been parked for it. Not penalized, but PARKED, drivers won't learn until they are removed from the event and the team owner reads them the riot act. The BMW was as bad with blocking and screwing up others races after they were laps down from repairs. He has ruined what was an increasingly terrible race, the ending was terrible and the penalties just made it worse. Haven't like the GT, not a good looking car to me, but the way some of the drivers and team have responded to criticism and broken cars has just made me not care if they left the series tomorrow.

Briscoe was in 3rd and under 2 seconds out of the lead when he was put off, he was not out of the picture in GTLM (and I am not a Ford fan!)! That is the worst area on the track to try and pass, period, and everyone knows it. As well as that being emphasized by the stewards pre-race. There is no frakking conspiracy to demote Derani and the #22, he made a low percentage move and missed it! He was penalized for it.
The hyperbolic diatribe, is over the top.






L.P.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Briscoe was shown blue flags for both stands prior to the incident. Failing to yield to a prototype before the Esses is dumb enough, the race leader is even dumber and now to argue it?? Come on Briscoe, you were well out of the GTLM fight. Grow up and fight another day, for me HE should have been parked for it. Not penalized, but PARKED, drivers won't learn until they are removed from the event and the team owner reads them the riot act. The BMW was as bad with blocking and screwing up others races after they were laps down from repairs. He has ruined what was an increasingly terrible race, the ending was terrible and the penalties just made it worse. Haven't like the GT, not a good looking car to me, but the way some of the drivers and team have responded to criticism and broken cars has just made me not care if they left the series tomorrow.

Watching protos pass going down the hill into the esses is always a little sketchy looking from our usual vantage point. Especially if they don't have the pass done before they get out of our view. That pass by Derani was one of those instances (of which there were hundreds through the weekend) where I couldn't tell what was going to happen. It worked out for people the first hundred times or so, but that last one didn't. I don't know what happened, but both drivers think they were right (imagine that)

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by joeb

Watching protos pass going down the hill into the esses is always a little sketchy looking from our usual vantage point. Especially if they don't have the pass done before they get out of our view. That pass by Derani was one of those instances (of which there were hundreds through the weekend) where I couldn't tell what was going to happen. It worked out for people the first hundred times or so, but that last one didn't. I don't know what happened, but both drivers think they were right (imagine that)

The exit of T4 and entrance of the esses also requires cooperation between both drivers, meaning the prototype driver has to start the pass before the end of T4 and the GT driver must slow slightly to allow the pass to be completed. In this case, it looks like neither of those things happened. Pipo was late and Briscoe may not have braked. As they say around here, it's just one of those racing deals.

[fergus_r]

Loved my first Petit- track is glorious and cracking race too.

Watched the final two hours from T5 spectator bank- saw the Derani/Briscoe incident in almost the exact same perspective as the TV camera caught it. Being on the inside of the Esses would have given a much better view but can't always be in the right place at the right time!