Larger Organizers Hoovering Up Club Entries?

[Mike Bell]

Historic Motor Racing Gmbh have now announced the U2TC and Pre '63 calendars. Note that the tin tops are NOT at Silverstone Classic. Also interesting is that the admin for both will now be handled by Motor Racing Legends. From the email-

Dear HMR Drivers,

Happy New Year to one and all. We hope you had a good break and are looking forward to the 2019 season.

Forgive the end of year silence - a long holiday in South America and the fact that we have made some changes to the organisation has kept us from communicating earlier.

New Admin Arrangements for U2TC and Pre-'63GT: Having seen the way historic motor racing is changing, we thought it best to team up with a bigger organisation that could provide you with a more professional management of the series. We are therefor delighted to announce that Motor Racing Legends will be taking on the day-to-day administration of both series for us, and your main contact for entries and organisational questions will be with them.

We at HMR will still be here to help shape the regulations, the calendar and general direction of the two series. You are always welcome to contact us any time with comments or questions.

We think this will bring about a very positive change for you, while maintaining the friendly, family-like character of the series and the quality of car selection. In the case of Pre-’63 Ben Cussons will remain as head of the Selection Committee and oversee the technical regulations, and DK Engineering will continue their valuable to support of the series.

2019 Calendar
Donington Historic Festival 3-5 May (U2TC and Pre-’63 GT)
Thruxton Motorsport Celebration 1-2 June (U2TC only)
Silverstone Classic 26-28 July (RAC Tourist Trophy Pre-'63 GT only)
Spa Six Hours 27-29 September (U2TC only)
Algarve Classic Festival 1-3 November (U2TC and Pre-'63 GT)

Wherever possible U2TC will have two 40-minute races. Pre-'63 GT will have one hour races, except for the TT at Silverstone where the race will be 50 minutes.

Further details and entry forms will be coming soon! In the meantime write these dates in the diary. Your contact at Motor Racing Legends will be Gillian Carr, who you all know from our race meetings last year. Email Gillian'at'motorracinglegends.com.

Estoril Festival: We will be working with Diogo Ferrao of Race Ready organising races for pre-1975 Sports Cars and Formula 1 cars up to 1985 at the Estoril Classics meeting on 11-13 October. Both these races have attracted sponsorship and in the case of the F1 cars, substantial start money will be paid to all competitors. In the case of the sports cars, the first 20 competitors to enter will be paid start money. Contact us at HMR at this email address or the phone number below for regulations and entry forms for these two races.

We look forward to an exciting and successful season under these new arrangements.

[Peter Mallett]

Interesting indeed.

Looks like MRL are moving into the "Masters" style business model. Albeit they are no doubt being paid to do the organising.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Interesting indeed.

Looks like MRL are moving into the "Masters" style business model. Albeit they are no doubt being paid to do the organising.

I was seated next to Duncan W’s business partner (from memory- that’s how I think he described himself) at the Jag Challenge do, and appears they have another side to the business running motoring events, like for instance the LR anniversary do at Gaydon (I think) last year. And of course they now run the racing side of Donington HF, and I believe the Thruxton Revival this year as well. I see them taking over admin of Carol’s series as a positive move, but whether the U2TC grid numbers improve- that’s another question!

[Peter Mallett]

Yes, I agree it is positive. Also I concur, the advent of seriously quick Lotus Cortinas (as opposed to simply very quick) has had the expected result on entries.

[midgetman]

So is the day if the small organiser disappearing? Is the day of the motor club done? I know HSCC seems strong but I keep seeing that various of their series are struggling with numbers.

It seems that there are big commercial organisers are hoovering up the entries.

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[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by midgetman

So is the day if the small organiser disappearing? Is the day of the motor club done? I know HSCC seems strong but I keep seeing that various of their series are struggling with numbers.

It seems that there are big commercial organisers are hoovering up the entries.

I personally don’t think the big commercial organisers are having a much better time than the small ‘independents’ and clubs. Just it doesn’t look so obvious. My experience of the two biggest commercial operators suggests that grid sizes are not increasing, but some are reducing and lucky ones keeping stable numbers. Carol Spagg (U2TC and ‘Pre ‘63 GT), along with Flavien and Vanessa Marcais (GTSCC) have always operated with minimal overheads. The latter has a series that is attracting good grids up to now, but as discussed elsewhere, U2TC is not generally doing so, and in my opinion Pre ‘63 has gone from being a fun series to escape the later Cobras, lightweight E types etc. to being as competitive and expensive- just with earlier cars!

Regarding clubs, the HSCC have introduced a new initiative this season to reduce entry fees, according to Motorsport magazine. The news doesn’t appear to be on the HSCC website though! I think the general idea is that if you enter a Guards Trophy race, you can run the same car in Historic Road Sports at the same meeting for £99. The regs have been tweaked to include FIA cars, which many don’t appreciate are normally outside the HRS criteria.....

One worry for clubs is the ever increasing age of competitors, and the need to encourage a younger demographic. I understand the VSCC started to offer drivers under 30 years old half price entry fees a few years ago, and again, this is discussed in the magazine mentioned earlier.

[Willmaz223]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

I personally don’t think the big commercial organisers are having a much better time than the small ‘independents’ and clubs. Just it doesn’t look so obvious. My experience of the two biggest commercial operators suggests that grid sizes are not increasing, but some are reducing and lucky ones keeping stable numbers. Carol Spagg (U2TC and ‘Pre ‘63 GT), along with Flavien and Vanessa Marcais (GTSCC) have always operated with minimal overheads. The latter has a series that is attracting good grids up to now, but as discussed elsewhere, U2TC is not generally doing so, and in my opinion Pre ‘63 has gone from being a fun series to escape the later Cobras, lightweight E types etc. to being as competitive and expensive- just with earlier cars!

Regarding clubs, the HSCC have introduced a new initiative this season to reduce entry fees, according to Motorsport magazine. The news doesn’t appear to be on the HSCC website though! I think the general idea is that if you enter a Guards Trophy race, you can run the same car in Historic Road Sports at the same meeting for £99. The regs have been tweaked to include FIA cars, which many don’t appreciate are normally outside the HRS criteria.....

One worry for clubs is the ever increasing age of competitors, and the need to encourage a younger demographic. I understand the VSCC started to offer drivers under 30 years old half price entry fees a few years ago, and again, this is discussed in the magazine mentioned earlier.

Depends on young people
a)being interested
b)able to afford it

Stuff like the Trackday Championship,750 MC Club Enduro are boomimg max grids at most rounds.

[MGDavid]

MGCC also had (have?) a scheme for reduced entry fees for young racers.

In general it's hardly surprising the bubble is maybe deflating (rather than bursting).
a/ too many people trying to make a more-than-good living out of running races
b/ too many different championships / series / organisers chasing the same entrants

I'll stop there before we go full circle *again*

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

MGCC also had (have?) a scheme for reduced entry fees for young racers.

In general it's hardly surprising the bubble is maybe deflating (rather than bursting).
a/ too many people trying to make a more-than-good living out of running races
b/ too many different championships / series / organisers chasing the same entrants

I'll stop there before we go full circle *again*

Good example is the MGCC BCV8 and the Equipe GTS. The BCV8 has a class for FIA MGBs and now the Equipe GTS has gone full FIA. If many can't afford two races per event then one of those will lose entries.

[midgetman]

Well, clearly organisers are NOT making "a more than good living" otherwise I'm sure U2TC would still be independent.



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[Lancsbreaker]

CSCC seem to be having pretty good grids for most series, and are getting a lot of interest in their new roadgoing RX8 series apparently. They've had discounted entries for second races at the same meeting for ages. Don't think they have reduced fees for young drivers, but we do have a fair age range, although plenty of us geriatrics, of course.

[MGDavid]

Certainly CSCC are one of the good guys, always given excellent value for money, partly because they don't get involved with all the expensive peripheral razamatazz like posh marquees and hospitality & catering etc etc.

[midgetman]

The thing about decent living space and catering is that on the whole you can rock up with race car behind your daily driver and still have somewhere to sit and socialise on typically wet race weekends. It probably works out s similar price in the long run as eating in the circuit cafe or owning a motor home. At least it did when we all raced FISC together with catering and marquee included.

Using UK prices as a guide:

Breakfast @ Premier Inn = £10
Lunch @ circuit (burger) = £5
Dinner = £15 @ circuit
X2 days X3 people = £180 value off entry fee

Then there's the social benefits of having a central meeting place etc. And somewhere for Mrs MM to be out of the rain is priceless!

Cost of owning a motorhome to live and cook in? Even my old Iveco cost £200 per meeting easily, plus the capital cost.

So on balance the value of running in a series where all this is provided is a no brainer.

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[Gerard C]

Our situation is, alas, in no way comparable. We have only one commercial company officially working on behalf of our "fédération". Any series promoter interested in the official french championship has to deal with this. Strangely and because France is France, some series decided to split or disappeared. To operate officially the "dissidents" have to pay a fee to the fédération. Fact is that we have now happy splitters and the official french fédération operator doing good with… foreigners!

Mike its the first time I see officially start money will be paid in historic. Unfortunately you don't mention the email address to join the generous person!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Mike its the first time I see officially start money will be paid in historic. Unfortunately you don't mention the email address to join the generous person!

Surprised no one else has commented on the ‘substantial’ start money mentioned in the oroiginal post. I’m sure anyone with an appropriate car will know how to contact Carol at HMR....

[zefarelly]

We paid 28k for our motorhome and sold it for 20 some years later, depreciation around 1k a year . . . . plus circa £1200 a year to keep . . . the last year we had it we did 8 nights. A hotel would be cheaper. Although I do like staying at the circuit/paddock

If it was just me, a small van would suffice.

The cost per meeting really depends on duration and location . . . .5 days at LMC made it very good value and extremely convenient, as well as comfortable (aircon!) but the ball ache of doing everything for one night at Brands Hatch . . . . priceless for a long weekend in the pouring rain/snow of June in the Ardennes!

Having not done much in the last 3 years I really don't know what to do when I finish building the TT . . . .and/or how to approach meetings with the team/family . . . .

Originally Posted by midgetman

The thing about decent living space and catering is that on the whole you can rock up with race car behind your daily driver and still have somewhere to sit and socialise on typically wet race weekends. It probably works out s similar price in the long run as eating in the circuit cafe or owning a motor home. At least it did when we all raced FISC together with catering and marquee included.

Using UK prices as a guide:

Breakfast @ Premier Inn = £10
Lunch @ circuit (burger) = £5
Dinner = £15 @ circuit
X2 days X3 people = £180 value off entry fee

Then there's the social benefits of having a central meeting place etc. And somewhere for Mrs MM to be out of the rain is priceless!

Cost of owning a motorhome to live and cook in? Even my old Iveco cost £200 per meeting easily, plus the capital cost.

So on balance the value of running in a series where all this is provided is a no brainer.

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