educational?

[AoB Special Stage]

It is a very familiar style. You have to give me that much.

[Purist]

I haven't expressly seen the 300-meter pit lane length or the 100-meter pit exit length as a specific recommendation. That said, it does state 7 meters per car for the pit lane, and it makes sense to have some margin for pit-out.

Each lane of the pit lane should be 6 meters wide, and there should be at least 4 meters between pit lane and the track.

It's recommended that start/finish be at least 250 meters before the first corner.

[kerb]

ok, now I'm going to ask you all about runoff.

as we know there are 4 main surfaces for runoff, those being tarmac, grass, gravel and sand. and the main debate in my mind is between gravel and sand. I prefer sand because I feel it stops 2 ton of race car the fastest. but a car can easily dig in and roll and it is extremely dangerous for our two wheeled friends in both the bike and the rider.

there are some that prefer just tarmac for bikes and so cars caught in sand don't bring out the Safety Car. but I feel it leads to abuse of track limits like how I drive around Russia in the codemasters games

thoughts?

[AoB Special Stage]

1) cheating pleb

2) You forgot the ever present AstroTurf strip.

[Purist]

To my mind, use grass and gravel. Generally, have a few to several meters of grass before the gravel, so small mistakes don't get you stuck, but large ones result in the arrest of an out-of-control vehicle. You avoid track limits issues, while also giving some margin to keep the Safety Car from being deployed. And of course, you don't encourage some of the foolishness from drivers, because mistakes are automatically punshed with some loss of time.

Only in cases of corners on old circuits where there isn't really the room do you look at putting gravel practically right up to the track's edge; there's a few places like that, I think, at Oulton Park.

Also, too many accidents have been falsely blamed on grass or gravel run-offs, rather than the true problem of poor grading. And if you can't grade that stuff properly, I'm not sure I should be trusting you to grade asphalt smoothly either.

[kerb]

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

1) cheating pleb

2) You forgot the ever present AstroTurf strip.

1) yes, I am. I don't like that and Abu Dhabi because they're too cut-able

2) Astroturf and concrete are mostly used next to a kerb and not as runoff.

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Hungaroring and Macau are racers tracks, not spectators tracks.

Having been to Hungaroring once in the 90s as a spectator, I must disagree. From my seat near the top of the main grandstand opposite of the beginning of the pit building, I could see most of the circuit. However, the parts that were missing from view include the track's main overtaking zone in Turn 1 which was too far away down the front straight. But I was amazed that, in the distance, I could see the chicane over the top of the pit building, and long right-hander that comes before it, too.

In the beginning, I used to design my tracks with inspiration from real circuits in mind and tried to emulate the feel of those, such as 80s Silverstone and Monza. Later, I developed a liking for designing conceptual circuits, and part of that is the credo that a racetrack should not have "a bit of everything" to make it unique. For example, at one point, I tried to design the perfect "Mickey Mouse Course". In the mid-90s, I upgraded most of my older tracks with chicanes or added additional loops to make them safer, sometimes changing the character of a circuit. When I came here, my focus first turned to designing circuits from a car setup perspective, so different parts of a track would require setup compromises to be fast over a complete lap. Later, my attention shifted towards natural shapes as souces for track design which culminated in the observation that most of John Hugenholtz's tracks resemble pieces of ginger. ;-)

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Thinking of fans doesn't necessarily mean stadium-like twisty sections.

...

However, Hockenheim's Motodrom is an extremely boring section. Cars can barely overtake there. Fan friendly sections doesn't mean just having grandstands with view to the track, but putting grandstands close to action.

Motodrom is boring now but when Hockenheim still had its long straights, cars were a handful in the twisty Motodrom as they had to go through the hairpins on a low downforce setup that accomodated the straights perfectly but not that slow section. So you could see the drivers' skills up close. Now, no more, as the circuit allows for a boring high downforce setup since the early 2000s.

[AoB Special Stage]

[kerb]

yeah, learning how a certain set up can effect a car or bike can change how some people design, like putting in a long straight and a set of open curves as a basic example.

and also what type of racing you are aiming for can also effect the shape in my opinion. because there are so many disciplines that have different ways of getting speed.

if you were to race prototypes at Bathurst or laguna seca, it wouldn't work out as well as Spa or Monza. if you were to put a F1 car on a track like surfers paradise, where the fastest way around is to bash the crap out of your suspension and no real straight, cars wouldn't make half distance.

its not just about which way the road goes or how steep it is, it the finer details like kerb profiling that can make a large difference in racing quality

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by kerb

if you were to race prototypes at Bathurst or laguna seca, it wouldn't work out as well as Spa or Monza.

Come again?

Originally Posted by kerb

its not just about which way the road goes or how steep it is, it the finer details like kerb profiling that can make a large difference in racing quality

Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

[kerb]

[QUOTE=AoB Special Stage;3772165]Come again?


the tracks are to narrow for overtaking for the wide prototypes.

[AoB Special Stage]

[QUOTE=kerb;3772434]

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

Come again?


the tracks are to narrow for overtaking for the wide prototypes.

tell that to Van der Zande.

[kerb]

I'm going to reignite the runoff topic I mentioned earlier because I have been reading up about the blue and red stripes at Circuit Paul Ricard. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but from what I can tell its a mixture of asphalt and tungsten to maximise grip at the expense of tyre wear. but I don't see how it would stop a car with no brakes. if someone knows more about it, please tell me more about it.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by kerb

but I don't see how it would stop a car with no brakes. if someone knows more about it, please tell me more about it.

Tecpro barriers. Cars with no brakes are reliant on the barriers to stop them.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by kerb

I'm going to reignite the runoff topic I mentioned earlier because I have been reading up about the blue and red stripes at Circuit Paul Ricard. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but from what I can tell its a mixture of asphalt and tungsten to maximise grip at the expense of tyre wear. but I don't see how it would stop a car with no brakes. if someone knows more about it, please tell me more about it.

The stripes are like grades of sandpaper whereas the track is smooth like writing paper.

If you simply run wide it won't stop the cars as can be driven over.

In a brake failure situation, the rougher surface creates more friction slowing cars down

[kerb]

quick question, is there an FIA guideline on the maximum and minimum distances for marshal posts on a straight?

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Do you mean flagging posts access points or fire points etc?

[kerb]

all of the above. as much as I think the light panels on all F1 circuits are the best idea ever, a dude with a flag is a vital part in motorsport. correct placement of flag points, access roads and fire posts is so important in this era of motorsport. I'm thinking of starting placing them in my designs (as a little orange or blue box). I know for corner that they have to be able to see their neighbouring posts on either side to have full coverage of said corner. for a straight it would be easy to see one 500m to a kilometre, but it would be a bad idea for communication between cars and each post. that's what I want to know.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Try here....

https://www.fia.com/circuit-safety

[kerb]

uh, yes. in appendix H- recommendations for the supervision of the road and emergency sevices-2019, 2.4.2 must not exceed 500m. that link SBF put up has many other things for those who are interested and want to read up on design standards.