Starting out in MotorSport

[MichaelC]

Hi all. First time poster here in this forum, looking for some advice please.

I'm thinking about some form of practical involvement in motor sport as a driver, after a few years of being no more than an 'Armchair Enthusiast'.
Like most people, I have raced Karts for fun a fair few times, but never with any amount of seriousness. I quite like the idea of racing driver as a hobby though, so I figured this was the best place to ask for advice.

I'm 22 years old, and 6'3", so I think it's probably safe to say that I am now comfortably too old and too big to be racing Karts, and I'd never fit in any kind of single seater jobby, so I assume that the best plan is to go for involvement in Saloon/Touring/Sports Cars. The point is where to start.

I'm thinking about going to Silverstone do to the 306GTi experience, simply to see if I enjoy driving on a proper track, and whether I am physically capable of concentrating long enough to get around track without falling off it!!
If that goes OK I'll probably go back and have a go in the Elise experience, to see if I can do the same things more quickly. I wouldn't have a clue where to go after that though, so I welcome any suggestions that you have - thanks.

[Peter Mallett]

Michael,

RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Seriously, if you want to get into motorsport as an amateur then you will need a strong will and a lot of cash. That's not to put you off by any means, its just the reality of the situation. Of course it depends what you want to race.

Firstly, I would eschew the "experiences" and go for your ARDS course. You will spend less money and learn about the "tedious" areas of competing. You will either be put off or you will qualify for your licence (or both). You need to take the course anyway so why waste money on the "experiences"?

Then you choose your championship. Remember that generally the more modern the machinery, the higher the cost. However Historics are just as expensive as moderns so the rule can be disproved.

Rick P mentions the Super Coupe Cup, somewhere, which caters for Rover 216, Renault 5 Turbo's, VW G40s, Honda Civics. He reckons that £10K will cover the purchase of a car and a season's competitive racing.

If you aren't too fussy I would recommend the MG Car Club MG Metro championship. You have a choice of 3 classes. Roadgoing Modified, Modified and Turbo's.

Obviously, the Classic Saloon Car Club of Great Britain can provide opportunities for the novice and the experienced racer. For less than Rick's £10K you can buy and run a Morris Minor (don't knock them they are good fun) or a Hillman Imp. The bigger machinery gets a little more expensive. You might even consider running a Sunbeam Ti or Escort XR3i in Group 1.

For info I expect to spend about £5K on rebuilding my Capri this year. That's why I won't be racing until later in the year. Then entry fees etc will take my season's costs to around £12K.

Good luck.

[gp19]

1 what kind of kart were you driving I drive a 125 truli yam shifter and ha dose it goes I weight 175 lb and 6 ft. If I were you I would go to a racing school to get my FIA licence . I went to see what kind of car I d like to drive so I went to 4 schools in the us 1 Russell 2 Bob Bondurant 3 Skip Barber 4 Panoz I loved Skip Barbers Car they were open wheels just like F3000 in the uk .Now I race a tr7 in vintage race in Quebec and around Canada and some I the US its fun and dosen t cost to much I got a budget of 10,000.00 a year. If I am lucky I will not brake that this year. But had fun for 1,000,000.00.So my advise to you before you spend an big sums of money Go to school to see if you L O V E to race and look for a car in your budget .

Have a sssssuper race week GP19

[Slowcoach]

Well Michael obviously alot depends on your budget , but I would suggest a good place to start is sprinting and hillclimbing , first of all you dont need to do your ARDS test or undergo a medical , for 20 quid you can just send off for a National B lic. Then buy the best overalls and
helmet you can afford (never compromise on safety) and then if you dare you can go 'do it' in your road car.If it's not 4-wheel drive then u can enter standard (unmodified) classes just broken down by cc , it's a good and generally friendly place to start learning the joys and pitfalls and you are not immediately surrounded by loads of other cars charging for that first corner! For my first sprint I just rolled up , took the hub caps off , put on my crash helmet and was away. That will give you time to learn about your car and pit yourself against the clock and others in the relative safety of one at a time.It will also teach you the discipline of starting quickly without loads of wheelspin.
Then you'll have more time to look around for a race series that suits you. Sprinting is for any car , old or new , from a mini to an ex-formula one car , there is always a class to suit,and you also be able to choose between many local or national championships , although my guess is you will quickly want to move onto racing its a good and cheap place to get started.

[Dan Friel]

I'd agree with the above.. sprinting is what I plan. I've looked at racing, and I have an MG Midget which is to be converted. But I shall start with sprinting next year (hopefully), with an eye to develop up to racing. That way, I can spread the costs over a couple of years and learn skills whilst not getting punted off by some Schuie wannabe..

In sprinting, you can get to do laps of several famous circuits, I was having a good look at Goodwood all weekend (as the MG championship goes there), so its good experience I guess if you do go racing in the end.

Check out the other subject in this forum for what you need in terms of safety and costs etc...

[Dan Friel]

Oh, and I wouldn't go to Silverstone to do the race experience stuff... as from what I saw, they don't let you loose by yourself in the racing car, they seemed to be doing laps behind the tutor....

Go to Thruxton, Brands, or Castle Combe - I think you'll get more value for your money... (I've done the Castle Combe course - excellent and you get to do 6 laps by yourself in a Formula Ford)

[MichaelC]

Thank you all for the responses so far.

Dan - What I was looking at was something along the lines of that which Lorna reported on in Parc Ferme a while back. I'd love to go round CC in a Forumal Ford, but I don't think I would physically fit!!

[Dan Friel]

Give CC a call, as when I did it, there was certainly one guy who was 6'3 'ish.. but then again there was one guy who couldn't fit because he obviously enjoys his lifestyle, he must have been 20 stone +.... They have a variety of cars which fit different people, so perhaps discuss it with them..

Go for it.

[Chris Y]

Well, I'll be going 'round Donington Pk this weekend in a Pug 306 (birthday present) - So I'll let you know how things go..

Depending on whether I get put off or not, I may just go for a racing licence soon as well.

I was thinking of getting a licence and then doing a round of a race series or two. A lot of teams offer 'hire drives' for generally less than £500 per meeting, and I've been looking at Super Coupes, Fulda Fiats, and Legends..

The legends are particularly interesting to me at the moment, because you get at least 3 races per meeting, and points are allocated to cars, rather than drivers, so it's possible to 'car share' if you know what I mean

Anyway - do any of the more experienced racers have any comments on the above series?

Oh, one more thing.. There's some good 'getting started' information on this page: http://www.brscc.co.uk/getting_started/index.htm

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Chris Y
I was thinking of getting a licence and then doing a round of a race series or two. A lot of teams offer 'hire drives' for generally less than £500 per meeting, and I've been looking at Super Coupes, Fulda Fiats, and Legends..

Oh bugger. There's another one!!!!

£500.00 per meeting sounds reasonable but is that including insurance and entry fees? Also do they take novice drivers or should you have your national A licence.

Don't know much about the Legends cars except they are powered by motor cycle engines and therefore require a slightly different technique to normal car engined vehicles. Likewise my knowledge of the Fiats is nil.

Rick P knows all about Super Coupes and it sounds very competitive. However the costs for getting started are quite high.

I still say that you should look at the MG Car Club MG Metros or even the MGOC Maestros for a first car (tin top). You can buy a competitive car for around £2500.00 and with a small amount of prep work run a 12 race season for about £4 - £4,500.00. Mind you the MGOC tends to be a bit of a contact championship so the MG Car Club would seem better suited.

I wouldn't recommend the 750MC Hot Hatches because they are serously highly developed cars. The Stock Hatches are the opposite and in my view dangerous, because you can't modify brakes or bushes.

Enjoy yourself Chris.

[Dan Friel]

Stock / Hot hatches are just plain dangerous... I think its brewing for a horrendous accident..

Legends are excelelnt for the viewer, I saw them at Cadwell.. but don't expect to get through the race without a dent or two.

As Peter says, Metros are dirt cheap... and seem to have a well organised series set up, a very helpful co-ordinator. \They even have their own mag..

I've seen race Maestros for sale for £1000!!! Looked pretty dented, but would get you on the grid... It's very good racing, and they got a trip to Zolder this year.. Plus Maestros spares most be cheap!!

Fiat Unos / 127's are another good option, and from what I've heard at race circuits, the championship is set up for the new comer - the co-ordinator sounded like he knew his stuff, although I think they would be more expensive than your average Maestro...

[TimD]

I guess Maestros it is, Chris.

But would Maisie ever forgive you if you ever bent one?

[Maisie]

'S OK - we know all the spares suppliers (especially after my recent "incident"

Anyway, I'd want to drive it too.. and by now I'm getting very good at knowing exactly where a Maestro's wing mirrors are when driving.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Dan Friel
Stock / Hot hatches are just plain dangerous... I think its brewing for a horrendous accident..

I know why I think that but what is your reasoning here Dan?

[Chris Y]

£500.00 per meeting sounds reasonable but is that including insurance and entry fees? Also do they take novice drivers or should you have your national A licence.

I believe it's all on a 'B' licence, and the fees depend on the team. Some say it's extra, some include it in the price. I think most teams say "if you break it, you pay for it"..

Don't know much about the Legends cars except they are powered by motor cycle engines and therefore require a slightly different technique to normal car engined vehicles. Likewise my knowledge of the Fiats is nil.

Yeah, they are powered by 1200cc Yamahas (or maybe Suzukis) - but when you say different driving technique, how so?

I still say that you should look at the MG Car Club MG Metros or even the MGOC Maestros for a first car (tin top). You can buy a competitive car for around £2500.00 and with a small amount of prep work run a 12 race season for about £4 - £4,500.00. Mind you the MGOC tends to be a bit of a contact championship so the MG Car Club would seem better suited.

I actually hadn't thought of Metros, so thanks for the tip Peter, I'll look into that..

I suppose what I want to do first is 'dip my toe in' before comitting to a full season. Even though I could probably fork out for a racing Metro or Maestro, I want to be sure I can drive 'em properly and I like doing it. That's what is so appealing about some of the hire drives.

Enjoy yourself Chris.

Thanks Mr. M. I'll let you know how Saturday's 'Pug Spinning' goes

[Peter Mallett]

Basically a motorcycle engine (like a rotary) provides absolutely zero braking. You really have to rely on the brakes which meansd increased concentration because there's no leeway for variations in braking.

[Dan Friel]

Stock / Hot Hatches...

I've seen them a few times over the last couple of years, and although it provides good fun racing with big grids - generally the driving standards are dire... Some drivers have some talent, I admit. But the others have obviously been watching too much old style BTCC for my liking. I don't think they beileve that they can hurt themselves in those hatch back cars, all I have to say is the accident that killed the very talented Keith Odor. And if they saw the accident that I witnessed about 4 years ago down at Combe (Astra and Nova involved), perhaps they might think again.

That's sort of what I meant...

[Peter Mallett]

Good point but its not limited to hot hatches. The Maestros can also be frenetic. My problem is with the regs. If you can't beef up brakes and bushes it a) cost money in frequent replacements and b) means that stopping power is just not available.

[Tony Harman]

Hi folks, Michael - don't be put off by height as far as single seaters are concerned, most can accomodate 6'3", you have to remember you kind of build these cars around you, my Jamun Classic FF would easily take 6'6" plus.
There are lots of "low cost" formulae around so have a think if you want to do single seaters, sports racing cars, (clubmans and the like), or saloons, get an idea of your budget for a year in terms of running costs and then add some for fixing the car when you bend it. A lot of people don't do whole championships but just do 3 or 4 races a year and that obviously lowers the cost.
I have to add my ten-penneth about Stock & Hot hatches here, having some association with the 750 M/C who run it.
Hot Hatches have really cleaned their act up since the Stock Hatch came along and the racing is very clean these days, the club as a whole is trying to come down hard on driving standards particularly in Stock Hatch and have already thrown one driver out of the club, unfortunately they're up against the televised example of the BTCC type boys who demonstrate some pretty disgusting track tactics and get away with it in the name of good spectator sport, I'm sure if we drove like that in club racing we'd pretty soon have the CofC breathing down our necks. (right down off soap box now). Also, and no disrespect to saloon drivers at all, but saloons do tend to pick up more light body damage than single seaters, I guess that's because the bodywork meets first rather than the wheels, I've bumped wheels a few times in single seaters but you just don't get too close otherwise your hobby has suddenly changed from weekend racing to weekend flying !

[Dan Friel]

I'm a great fan of the 750 MC, and i'm actually a member also... and reading the mag, they really have tried to sort this one out. Hot Hatches are quite advanced cars, that new Saxo is a peach - but how much would that cost to develop?? lots... Perhaps they are getting too valuable to dent..

But Stock Hatches, there's loads of them and all very dented!! And the incident that I witnessed at Cadwell earlier in the year makes me think that there isn't an awful lot mutal of respect for each other - hence making it more dangerous than other 'friendly / calmer' championships.. But from what I've read, this sort of driving will no longer be acceptable..

[gp19]

sorry I don t get it, Could you help me on these car a stuff, I live in canada?????? HELP!!!!!!!!
have a sssssuper race week gp19

[Peter Mallett]

gp19. Not sure what you're getting at there.

Chris. Wot happened then?

[MichaelC]

...and how many pieces is the car in!!

[Chris Y]

Sorry guys, due to overwhelming work commitments, I won't be able to post a full report, but I will say that the day was...

Totally brilliant!

I drove the Pug around, and despite the fact that we weren't allowed to push the limits, it was very exciting. The instructors were superb, and they imparted a great deal of knowledge in a short amount of time.

I would say I learned a whole lot more during the 2 brief sessions I had on the track than I would ever learn from talking about it, or playing computer sims, or watching it on the telly..

If you're serious about getting your licence (which I am now), and if you can afford one of these experiences, I would say go for it..

And judging on my experiences and those of my fellow drivers that day, I would say go for the Pugs, rather than the Elises - a bit easier to get used to, especially at Donington.

My performance? Well, I had a struggle with braking points, and my instructor didn't really give me too much feedback on that, but I kept it on the black stuff, and the instructor said I was very smooth and made steady progress