One Make Series for GT40s

[GORDON STREETER]

A very good fiend of mine that used to make chassis for F1 cars back in the 70s has been building a GT40 for the last 35 years, and when I say "building" he has made just about every part except the basic engine. Now at 74 years of age I wonder if he will ever finish it ?

[Mike Crow]

Originally Posted by Derwent

I find it sad that we have one model series creeping into historics. one of the reasons I don't go to modern race meetings is that nearly all the races are one make. Even the BTCC is effectively that. Watching a variety of types of cars with different characteristics racing is much more interesting.
I think this series is for the rich gentlemen owners rather than the spectators.

As a spectator I agree. One make races at historic events are an unwelcome intrusion and boring to watch however exotic the car. One GT40, like one chocolate eclair, is a treat. Thirty GT 40s, like thirty chocolate eclairs, is not thirty times better but thirty times less interesting. I see one make races as a good chance to wander round the paddock. If we are ever allowed back in.

Mind, I pay £20 for 8 hours entertainment. The competitors pay thousands for an hour or so so my complaint is scarcely relevant

I have no problem with continuation or rebuilt cars but do we really need more Vanwalls and V16 BRMs. Is nothing sacred?

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

A very good fiend of mine that used to make chassis for F1 cars back in the 70s has been building a GT40 for the last 35 years, and when I say "building" he has made just about every part except the basic engine. Now at 74 years of age I wonder if he will ever finish it ?

An occasional contact of mine does a lot or work on them if he needs anything .
https://hailsham.cylex-uk.co.uk/comp...-19694856.html

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

An occasional contact of mine does a lot or work on them if he needs anything .
https://hailsham.cylex-uk.co.uk/comp...-19694856.html

Cheers, however he himself does make and repair stuff for Mercedes and Cosworth

[terence]

I think maybe I have already told this several years back.However,I once heard of a scrapped GT 40 chassis that was dumped into a Marsh on the Tilbury marshland.Two nameless guys had located the remains and cut out the section that carried the chassis/build numbers.They had a wealthy un named buyer who had the numbers turn into a completely new,apart from one small section,car built.Its very very difficult to spot any differences.If the money is there,so is the car.

[midgetman]

Derwent, who do you expect the racing to be for? This is just "club" racing, the events are for the drivers, who really worries about spectators? It's set up for guys to race like minded guys in similar cars.

Maybe it's the "rich gentlemen" that's the problem? After all there's very little difference between the principle behind this initiative and say the Citroen C1 championship, Viz, a bit of fun for the drivers.

Oh except that the C1 organisers don't allow "replicas", cars built from Pug 106 etc

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[coppice]

Well I bloody worry about at spectators , because I am one . Just because I don't race doesn't mean I don't have a stake in the sport.

One make series, whether for E -Types, GT 40s or Minis- are contrived and often achieve precisely the opposite outcome to the one intended . I'd far rather see a GT 40 battle with a T70 , or a Mini race a Mustang.

The only one make series worth a hill of beans were BMW M1 Pro-cars and teh TVR Tuscan challenge .

[Peter Mallett]

In reality, apart from Goodwood, Donington Festival and the Silverstone Classic, I doubt spectators have much impact on the running of the events and this is where the entrants permit the organisers to survive. So, as far as skin in the game is concerned spectators (as most of us are) come well down the food chain. Anyway it's only two races, one of which is at Donington and one at Silverstone in October.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Cheers, however he himself does make and repair stuff for Mercedes and Cosworth

Frank Catt , [at that link ] is quite a GT40 expert . Every time I have been to his place he has had a couple of them there , so it might encourage your friend if he could see some of them in the " Flesh " .
I have always found Frank quite approachable , but have heard he doesn,t suffer fools kindly . But it is easily possible he would agree to your mate visiting for a look & a chat .

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by coppice

Well I bloody worry about at spectators , because I am one . Just because I don't race doesn't mean I don't have a stake in the sport.

One make series, whether for E -Types, GT 40s or Minis- are contrived and often achieve precisely the opposite outcome to the one intended . I'd far rather see a GT 40 battle with a T70 , or a Mini race a Mustang.

The only one make series worth a hill of beans were BMW M1 Pro-cars and teh TVR Tuscan challenge .

Sorry, but I think you should look into when the Mini Se7en Racing Club started, and they are still going strong as the televised appearances with the BTCC has shown over the past couple of years.

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by terence

I think maybe I have already told this several years back.However,I once heard of a scrapped GT 40 chassis that was dumped into a Marsh on the Tilbury marshland.Two nameless guys had located the remains and cut out the section that carried the chassis/build numbers.They had a wealthy un named buyer who had the numbers turn into a completely new,apart from one small section,car built.Its very very difficult to spot any differences.If the money is there,so is the car.

People have been doing that to Lambrettas' for years, an Li125 frame is identical to a TV200, those magic numbers and a few bolts on bits triple the value. The only unique part of a TV200 is the gearbox, which is like LeMan gearing so no one wants them! No good for mincing about on Brighton seafront

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by coppice

Well I bloody worry about at spectators , because I am one . Just because I don't race doesn't mean I don't have a stake in the sport.

.

But you're not a stakeholder. This season racing has proved it with racing going on quite happily behind closed doors. If you weren't there the average club driver wouldn't even notice, let alone care, and the circuits would save money by not having gate staff, security, toilet cleaners etc etc.

I repeat the assertion I've made many times on this forum: motor racing is for the driver/entrant not the spectator. The fact that some people enjoy watching it is by the bye; until said spectators pay for me to drive what they want to see, I will drive what I want to drive, it's my money I'm spending.

This is a commercial championship, if not enough people want to drive a GT40 against other GT40s it will fail. But if people want to race this series, why should they stop because someone's who has no investment in the racing doesn't enjoy it? As I said before: it's their money.

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[john ruston]

It will cost the entrant something in the region of 6000 pounds to have a weekend to race a GT 40.
That’s assuming nothing goes wrong!
Great spectacles like 6 hrs Spa have very few spectators but drivers and entrants want to race there.
The few festivals Silverstone, Goodwood, Oldtimers,LMC and Monaco have decent followings but not many others.
What I did notice on my last visit to the GP that the crowd seemed very different to the historic gang

[coppice]

Originally Posted by midgetman

But you're not a stakeholder. This season racing has proved it with racing going on quite happily behind closed doors. If you weren't there the average club driver wouldn't even notice, let alone care, and the circuits would save money by not having gate staff, security, toilet cleaners etc etc.

I repeat the assertion I've made many times on this forum: motor racing is for the driver/entrant not the spectator. The fact that some people enjoy watching it is by the bye; until said spectators pay for me to drive what they want to see, I will drive what I want to drive, it's my money I'm spending.

This is a commercial championship, if not enough people want to drive a GT40 against other GT40s it will fail. But if people want to race this series, why should they stop because someone's who has no investment in the racing doesn't enjoy it? As I said before: it's their money.

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Having spent many thousands on watching the sport in UK and abroad, having helped organise events and marshalled at them , having written race reports , interviewed drivers from club level to world champion and even written a bloody book about motorsport I resent being dismissed as some sort of second class citizen. Of course people can race what they want - best of luck to them all - but please forgive me for, y'know , daring to express an opinion after having watched (etc) the sport for over 50 years...

[john ruston]

Not sure you qualify as a run of the mill spectator.
With that CV you are part of the establishment!

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by midgetman

This season racing has proved it with racing going on quite happily behind closed doors. If you weren't there the average club driver wouldn't even notice, let alone care, and the circuits would save money by not having gate staff, security, toilet cleaners…
Motor racing is for the driver/entrant not the spectator. The fact that some people enjoy watching it is by the bye; until said spectators pay for me to drive what they want to see, I will drive what I want to drive, it's my money I'm spending.

My opinion too. I now drive cars I used to drive in the '70s/80's and barely noticed that now there are almost no spectators. And I dont care cose I race for my pleasure only and feel no shame for this.

When you know what it takes to race a classic car if the organizer add few quids to the entry fee to balance the lack of spectators while remaining profitable, fair enough, good for me.

Times have changed may be its the right moment to write another book, testimony of an era. Or select carefully the races you like, with no replicas…

[Geraint Owen]

One question is whether driving standards are less good in replicas?

[Gerard C]

Seriously speaking I can't say. I just remember moons ago a famous CEO of a company involved in perfumes and make up, wrecking his GTO -the real thing- twice during a meeting at Montlhéry. Once the Sat another one the Sunday. No spectator was happy to see that.

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Geraint Owen

One question is whether driving standards are less good in replicas?

The standard of driving doesn't change, the risk aversness clearly does. new cars are safer and stronger as well as faster.


I can honestly say, be it a clubbie at Lydden, Castle Cmbe or a big one like LMC or Goodwood, as a driver I would'n t and don't notice any spectators, you're far too busy trying to keep it on the black bit. I've often been surprised by some photo's of what the back drop is, you just don't see it when racing.

[john ruston]

Geraint- Depends on which series
Woodcote/Moss driving standard higher than 70’s Sports car.
U2TC not good compared with Pre63
The list goes on
Interesting when you see driving styles change when some of the junior superstars are in a replica against a proper car.Certain E Types show this!
Not sure how the over 60’s in VSCC are designated!