Bathurst - Safety Cars and Other Stats

[RaceTime]

OK - 9 safety car periods totalling 44 racing laps or, in terms of time wasted - 2 hours 7 min 52 secs behind the safety cars!

The longest safety period in terms of laps, was the first - 7 laps but losing only 18 minutes. Safety period 4 only covered 6 laps, but took 22 mins 30 secs!

In order:

# From To Total Time
1 28 34 7 18:10
2 44 47 4 09:15
3 52 56 5 14:40
4 73 78 6 22:30
5 86 89 4 12:50
6 93 97 5 13:40
7 109 112 5 14:25
8 136 139 4 11:47
9 141 144 4 10:30

Race Leaders:
In all 19 different lead changes with 9 different leaders

Jones of course led the first 29 laps until passed by Skaife - however, Skaife although winning the race only led for 34 laps. Kelly in the 51 car, led a total of 31 laps, but the race leader for more laps than anyone was the Ingall/Richards car with 44 laps.

# Car From To Total
1 21 1 29 29
2 1 30 55 6
3 51 36 64 29
4 16 65 68 4
5 51 69 70 2
6 1 71 71 1
7 4 72 73 2
8 5 74 78 5
9 16 79 84 5
10 1 85 96 1
11 02 96 96 1
12 11 97 97 1
13 02 98 104 7
14 2 105 107 3
15 66 108 109 2
16 16 110 135 26
17 66 136 137 2
18 16 138 145 8
10 1 146 161

Fastest Laps:

In all the fastest lap was set on 20 seperate occasions - all in the first 29 laps! Some fastest laps were broken by consecutive cars crossing the timing line eg at the 28 min mark the 21 car did a 2:10.1726 to set the first new lap record only to have Skaife travelling 0.5555 sec behind Bowe then drop it to 2:10.0734. 10 times were recorded under the old lap record ie they were officially lap records until subsequently broken with John Bowe eventually setting the record at 2:09.5705 - 0.8 under the old record which he set in last years event.

Skaife (1), Bowe (21) and Kelly(51) were the only drivers to go under the old lap record in terms of setting fastest lap, however, 5 drivers in total all set fastest times, for their cars, under the old record - and all in the first 29 laps...Nos 21, 51, 1, 2 and 16.


Cars setting race fastest laps were 21 (Bowe), 1 (Skaife), 51 (Kelly) and 2 (Bright).

The slowest fastest lap set durg the race, excluding the Grice/Halliday car (which only recorded 1 lap) was the #59 car of Searle and Miller with a 2:17.0804 (which is 105.48% of the fastest time set).

[Armco Bender]

Do you think the safety car screws the race?any car that builds up a lead is always pulled back to the pack,if your trying to build a lead prior to a pit stop and theres a safety car,instead of coming out infront you get shuffled back down the pack,no point in racing if you stay on the lead lap the leaders always come back to you.
The other thing I was thinking about is if Team A is leading and Team B is second by 20-30seconds,whats to stop Team B s second car driving into a sandtrap to bring out the safety car to bring the 2 lead cars back together?Unsporting, but would it be illegal?has it ever been done?

[RaceTime]

<cough cough> This would *never* be done

(The number of times at the Thunderdome we would have a car spin, sit dwn on the low line of the track requiring a pace car to be called out and, just as the pace car comes out, the car gets going again - amazing!

However, to be honest, I think that only two teams would have the intelligence to do this - HRT and OzEmail racing....

[Armco Bender]

Yeah it was just something I was wondering about,obviously if both of the second teams cars needed to score points it wouldn't happen,but if it was a big victory at stake,it could possibly cross your mind.I thought about it yesterday with the Castrol cars chasing down Skaife.

[jetsetter]

It could be done but it would depend on where your second car was running whether you would do it or not as you wouldn't do it if both of your cars were in contention for the race. I think though that the safety car has become a necessary evil with the speeds the cars are now doing as some of the cars would have been in rather dubious places.

[Crash Test]

Hrmmm.... is Ozemail that smart? I remember thinking that when Jones got away to his big early lead- what was the point? There was no doubt at all that there was going to be a safety car shortly... why drive the nads off it and break it?

[RaceTime]

In terms of tactical ability I would put Kim Jones at the top.

Crash - you never saw the Jones brothers at the Thunderdome - Kim is the only driver I have seen able to bring his car in and work on it EIGHT times during a pace car period and still end up getting his driver to the finish in 2nd position (in a 20 plus field...)

No - Kim knows how to work rules and has very god race craft.

[Crash Test]

I won't disagree that they are great tacticians- they were right on the ball in the 500 with that regard.

But going back to yesterday- Skaife played the waiting game, and didn't flog his car to breaking point early on, and subsequently won the thing... but then again, was that bolt always going to break?

[racer69]

Thats the problem now, all you basically have to do is bugger around just going fast enough to keep the lead lap so you can 'buy your ticket to the last hour' (sorry, had to say it )

Something needs to be done to put a stop to all the nonsense. How many of those Safety Car periods were really needed, just about all could have been handled under local yellows. Back when the pace car was first introduced in '87, there weren't many yellows, only when really needed. (Like the Corrola's and Baigent/Bowkett Skyline up the top). In '89 it went caution free despite an M3 catching fire on the side of the track and the sister M3 going into the wall at Forrets Elbow, and in '91 it was caution free again, even though Bob Pearson had a big one up top (similiar to the #25 car crash in 2001) and one of the Sierra's went in the sand at McPhillamy, yet they got them out no problem.

I have to say i would have preferred the race go caution free and someone win by a lap than what we had yesterday, then at least i would have felt i saw a proper enduro

[RaceTime]

Who knows - I am slowly catching upwith Autosport - currently around late March and one of the stories today was about the 888 Vauchall team testing at one of the British tracks. During the course of the test they kept blowing tyres at one corner which they believed was due to the sudden loading of the tyre and the point of contact on a particular kerb.

Now this had never happened before but affected both their cars numerous times.

So - faulty tyres or the way the cars were set up?

In the Jones bolt case - who knows - car set up, faulty component (ala HRT at QLD Raceway) or what?

No other car had any sort fo similar problem (that we know of - will have to read MSN tomorrow to find out - sorry AA's report have gone downhil over the ast few years - be lucky if Jon Evans gets 3 pages in print...)

[hoffy]

OK, racer69, you go out there with a cars buzzing around your ankles at race speed trying to move a broken car.
Its a matter of OH&S.
Agreed, cars way off in sand traps are less of a problem, but the mere fact that they are there in the first place suggests that another could do similar. Could you imagine being one of the trackies moving a bogged car, when all of a sudden another decides to do the same thing?
I was actually thinking of a solution to this. I can't see any reason why they couldn't install external lifting pionts on the cars, ie, cars have extensive and very strong cage work, that extend from front tower to rear tower. Just need some Eye bolts (or something similar) sticking out the body work. Then when gets bogged, gets hoisted out by large crane situated say, at key pionts like McPhillimy and the chase.

Just an idea.

[RaceTime]

I've just had a conversation with one of the officials that was in Race Control at Bathurst - rather a good discussion actually.

One of the problems that has arisen at Bathurst in particular - I was asking why the number of safety cars for sneezes - and it was pointed out that the cars aren't slowing down at accident scenes like they should.

It appears to me, after this conversation, that CAMS in particular, and AVESCO as category manager, are or have been attacking the problem from the wrong angle.

Sure - a safety car can neutralise a race to allow workers to do their job - but surely if officials had been tough enough in the first place, the need for the safety car wouldn't have been needed.

IOW - instead of waving double yellow flags only to see the driver wave at you and continue racing, officials SHOULD have penalsied - and very very heavily - those cars for not slowing.

Those that know me realise I have a problem with the manner in which one particular CAMS official works in race contgrol. The reason stems back to Oran Park at a Super Touring meeting some years ago.

In this particular race, one car - can't recall who it was now - put it into the wall at the start of the pits - this was before the modifications were done.

The car was sitting along the pit wall waiting to be moved - so yellows were being waved on the entry to the main straight and double yellows at the start finish.

Now the problem I had is that of the 4 laps the double yellows were being waved, the lap record was BROKEN on 3 successive laps and only just missed on the 4th. When race control were informed of this, the reply from the race director was literally 'go away - I don;t want to know!'

Now I am extremely safety conscious and having this attitude and comment come back from a supposedlt safety oriented ex-race driver simply said to me the guy doesn't give a damn or have a clue.

[hoffy]

The problem is a matter of definition.
There was an incident report written at Mallala about a red flag incident. Even though no passing took place in the incident, it was very clear that 2 cars on the track were still travelling at close to racing speed.
The reporting marshall reported them as travelling at racing speed during a red flag.
The report was dismissed, because one of the drivers brought up the piont, define racing speed.
It nearly appears you need to be a lawyer to get around things like this.

[RaceTime]

Yep - and that is what is wrong with the sport. Despite these definitions being highlighted as problems, they never get changed and keep coming back time after time to keep biting the officials.

But - like most beaurocratic organisations, nothing gets done to fix the problem - rather it is ignored or swept under the carpet in the hope it will go away.

[Crash Test]

But if you got drivers to slow for yellow flags, they would probably also stop punting each others off the road, and stop driving off from the pits without paying... if it wasn't worth so much money, people would probably cool down a touch...

[Flaggie]

Agreed Racey... It's about Time drivers were pinged more often for taking no notice of yellow flags. Winton Konicas 2001, we had Ferrier in the Kitty at the old turn 1, And that just happens to be the lap that Dumbrell sets his pole time on???

Or again at Winton this year when we had DOUBLES out for personnel on track recovering Faulkner and directing the stragglers past, and Lowndes came past at race speed and understeering towards the guy on track.

The problem is though, officals in race control dont trust the trackside blokes enough to make the right call. If a car's dead in middle of track then hell yeah, I'm with hoffy, I wouldn't be out there without a safety car. If a car's in the kitty, I'd not even bother going out. Wait for the recovery guys. Once they're in there they aint going anywhere regardless of pushing, most of the time. But when a bloke's well off the track, like the Tander/Bargwanna car was, I'd have no problems covering that recovery with yellows.

But then again, it also comes down to individual marshals as well. Some flaggies and trackies are a lot more gung ho about going to cars than others are. That's one of the reasons why you get the blanket safety car.

But still the point remains, yellow flags get way too much ignored.

[RaceTime]

Re the example of the car in the middle of the track - this is precisely the point I made about not coming down heavily enough on cars/drivers in the past. They now think they can get away with it and don;t bother slowing down.

I know you are out there but the majority of safety car periods are simply NOT required IF the cars sowed down.

Unfortunately to do that you need a race director with balls not patented leather moccasins....

[Flaggie]

Didn't Besnard get nailed for ignoring a double waved Yellow at the Wilson/Lowndes PI hit? I think he may have, and that's about the only time I can recall it happening. Care to have a squizz at the press releases, Racey?

[racer69]

The Porsche Cup race on sunday morning was a good example of how if there is an accident,and the drivers obey the yellows, like they seemed to very well, the race can continue. As has been mentioed above though the Touring Car drivers don't seem to want to do it though.

[hoffy]

Then you have other incidents like one I attended at the Clipsal race this year.
Radisich had come to a stop in the run off (not a gravel trap)and stalled. We had a single waved yellow at the piont and the trackies trying to push him behind the barriers. As it was far enough off line (towards the back of the run off) the racing was allowed to conitinue (under yellows of cause). But being the @&*$ Radisich is, he was trying to bump start the car. The trackies would move him a few feet and he would drop the clutch. This happened for about a lap. There was no choice but to call a safety car period.

[RaceTime]

Originally posted by Flaggie
Didn't Besnard get nailed for ignoring a double waved Yellow at the Wilson/Lowndes PI hit? I think he may have, and that's about the only time I can recall it happening. Care to have a squizz at the press releases, Racey?

Nope - no mention in despatches for that meeting.

There was a $2,000 fine handed out for not wearing Dunlop Caps at the presentation though (a real safety issue that is.....)

[Crash Test]

While on revenue raising, has anyone noticed that some cars always seem to pop up on the list of cars that speed in pit lane? Like Morris for the last two meetings- how come the limiter on just a couple of cars doesn't always seem to want to work..

[RaceTime]

Easy targets for the Dept of Revenue Raising ie AVESCO and CAMS