Weber DCOE- When first used?

[zefarelly]

40 DCOE's were fitted to the first Cosworth 105E engines, in Lotus 18's, Jan/Feb 1960

I guess that was a floodgates moment in more ways than one.

[Gerard C]

Strange that some people have 45 DCOE's remade. A good bloke has a set of 3, originals ones, professionally rebuilt and he wonders for how much they could go. ATM jetted for DB5 GT/ DB6 vantage. Any idea?

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

40 DCOE's were fitted to the first Cosworth 105E engines, in Lotus 18's, Jan/Feb 1960

I guess that was a floodgates moment in more ways than one.

I wonder if changes in the UK import duty system at this point in time promoted the use of Webers,
quite apart from the making more power

I remember reading in the history of the Climax V8 F1 engine and early FPFs that the cost import duty on the pricey 58 Webers did hinder development.

does anybody have detailed knowledge of applicaable import duty levels

a short google reveals the import for cars into the UK was a staggering 30 %, so one wonders who imported a Renault or somesuch (France was the leading exporter to the UK at that time) with that kind of premium attached-

RudE

[Gerard C]

Back in the day we had several VAT rates. For the luxury goods, as cars, in car stereo and hi-fi for instance, t' was 33,3%. Strange things appeared, a passenger car was rated at 33,3 but if you removed the rear seats making it a two seaters also said "commerciale" the rate was much lower (18,6 or 19,6 can't remember).

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Back in the day we had several VAT rates. For the luxury goods, as cars, in car stereo and hi-fi for instance, t' was 33,3%. Strange things appeared, a passenger car was rated at 33,3 but if you removed the rear seats making it a two seaters also said "commerciale" the rate was much lower (18,6 or 19,6 can't remember).

A Belgian friend has a new MIni 'van' basically the clubman with the rear seats taken out . . . . I don't know exactly whatthe tax break was but significant. a Dog doesn't need rear seats anyway!

[Peter Mallett]

Yup, when I were a lad at college a couple of blokes had mini vans because the purchase tax was reduced on goods vehicles. They were also allegedly, good for the odd grapple in dark country lanes.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yup, when I were a lad at college a couple of blokes had mini vans because the purchase tax was reduced on goods vehicles. They were also allegedly, good for the odd grapple in dark country lanes.

Yes I believe they were good for that, but were they fitted with DCOE carburettors

[Peter Mallett]

Don't be picky.....

[zefarelly]

MIne had an SU, me being 6'3" and her (GF at the time) just nearly 6'.

It was easier to show here my twin chokes in my flat

[Gerard C]

Still can't see the influence of removing the rear seats and putting big carbs on a Mini in a dark country lane. Is it related to the headlamps?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Still can't see the influence of removing the rear seats and putting big carbs on a Mini in a dark country lane. Is it related to the headlamps?

Over riders apparently.

[Maxtone]

Great thread and info, folks,
I'm compiling chronological spreadsheet of Weber DCO Tipos for future dissemination and have some info to add for FIA regs.

This Weber spec sheet variety from 1960-1973

http://www.iw1axr.eu/Manuali_off/WEB...20-%201973.pdf

has all DCO3s discontinued by May 1960, including those for Coventry Climax 1.5, which may be significant.

It also has 42DCOE3s for Maserati 3500GT discontinued by that date, replaced by 42DCOE6/8. First few 3500s built late 1957, none yet seen with DCO3s, but many early cars went back to factory.

40DCOE2s used on Alfa Veloces etc., awaiting changeover date from DCO3s, but mid 1959 seems likely.

45DCOE4s original spec for Aston DB4GT, introduced Sept 1959.

38DCOE1s used by Stanguellini, maybe others, on Fiat 1100 lumps for early Formula Junior single seaters from late 1958 for 1959 season. No FJs yet seen with DCO3s, but Stanguellini, Osca, ASA, Moretti, Siata, etc. used smaller DCO3s previously.

Dagrada also used DCOEs on Lancia V4 Appia lump in FJ -- not sure of start date, but has to be the most ingenious head conversion/Weber fitment ever invented -- and sounds awesome!

Are the FIA's objections to the use of Webers per se in pre-1960 racers, or of the substitution of DCOEs instead of unobtainable OE DCO3s?

Hope this all helps. Any other dating info gratefully received.

Rob

[zefarelly]

It looks like the DCO3 was basically superseded by the DCOE2 ? 2's are the earliest referenced for Fords engines and FJ?

[Will Nuthall]

hmmm
that has the 1.5ltr climax (2 carb) 38 DCO3 being discontinued.

I don't think any running now would be trying to use 38s anyway.

Presumably that also doesn't mean that the 40 DCO3s or 45 DCO3s were discontinued