[Official] Brazilian Grand Prix 2021: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 19 of 22

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

No, it's not with hindsight. If nothing else, there's the last 32 years of F1 history to recognise the possibility of Verstappen/RB giving Hamilton his "comeuppance".

So the problem didn't originate at Silverstone. It originated 32 years ago, before either driver was competing?

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

You're going to have to clarify your point?

My point is - the same penalty applies regardless of which driver, and where they stand in the championship. You keep on reitierating the view that Hamilton should have received a harsher penalty at Silverstone because the incident involved the top two drivers in the WDC. The logical extension of that is that incidents involving drivers further down the grid would receive a lesser penalty because the consequences (in terms of WDC) are less.

If a penalty is to deter all drivers, then the same penalty applies regardless of who is involved. That is what happened at Silverstone - 10 seconds is consistent with penalties handed out for such incidents.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

Tell that to Verstappen and RB. They were stung out of the race by Hamilton with no opportunity for damage limitation. That is unsatisfactory.

What are you going to do for them? Say "Too bad, so sad. You'll get 'em next time"?

In other forms of racing (cycling/running) victims of clashes receive benefits

This isn't other forms of racing. You could just as easily say the same about Monza to Hamilton and MB.

You are advocating for F1 to change the way it has dealt with incidents that have been perfectly adequate for 70 years, because Karen isn't happy with a bit of misfortune?

[Mike Harte]

Children, would you mind taking your game of whatever you would like to call it (if you can actually agree to that) out in to the playground, and leave us adults to enjoy these pages in peace. It is getting increasingly boring.

Thank you.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Children, would you mind taking your game of whatever you would like to call it (if you can actually agree to that) out in to the playground, and leave us adults to enjoy these pages in peace. It is getting increasingly boring.

Thank you.

Oh yes please, I'm getting a headache with this endless roundy-round deja vu.....

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

So the problem didn't originate at Silverstone. It originated 32 years ago, before either driver was competing?

Suzuka 89 is the first clash between 1&2 where one of the parties were aggrieved. Up until then, there were few or no clashes between those drivers.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

My point is - the same penalty applies regardless of which driver, and where they stand in the championship. You keep on reitierating the view that Hamilton should have received a harsher penalty at Silverstone because the incident involved the top two drivers in the WDC. The logical extension of that is that incidents involving drivers further down the grid would receive a lesser penalty because the consequences (in terms of WDC) are less.

If a penalty is to deter all drivers, then the same penalty applies regardless of who is involved. That is what happened at Silverstone - 10 seconds is consistent with penalties handed out for such incidents.

Even if the 10sec penalty is considered fair by everyone. What you've not addressed is what happens to the "victims" of such collisions?

In other forms of racing (and some other sports?), there's a compensatory aspect. There is none of this in F1, but would make a huge difference.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

This isn't other forms of racing. You could just as easily say the same about Monza to Hamilton and MB.

If Monza was the first skirmish between these two? Yes. If there were compensatory points, for instance, I can say with as much certainty as I can, that Verstappen doesn't force the issue.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

You are advocating for F1 to change the way it has dealt with incidents that have been perfectly adequate for 70 years,

Man, Idk how much you know of F1 history, but you might want to revied it heavily for a bit of context.

It hasn't been dealt with adequately for 70 years, otherwise, you wouldn't see the squabbling we've seen often as we have. Previously, the prospect of dying is what dictated the behaviours on the race track, which was conservative compared to nowadays.

Controversial incidents haven't been dealt with adequately, and even respected former drivers don't know what to do. There's also been "natural justice" occurring often which has enabled stewards not to make the decisions.

89 Suzuka _ Prost didn't race ins Australia. Senna stuffed it on the track. He was an unlikely chance to win the championship anyway.

90 - Tit for tat allowed. Hopefully, Senna will stop going on about 89. Prost was unlikely to win the championship anyway.

94 - Despite a dodgy way to clinch the championship and the possibility of a dodgy car. It's accepted that Schumacher was the more merited champion.

97 Jerez - Well, Schumacher ended up in the gravel and Villeneuve clinched the championship. It's a lot easier to strip someone off 2nd in the championship than 1st.

2016 Austria - Rosberg should be penalised more harshly. But what can you ping him on when stewards and professional drivers don't know what to establish for punishment, and after Rosberg got bowled over by Hamilton in Spain and Canada.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

because Karen isn't happy with a bit of misfortune?

Ha ha good one.

You just come up with an idea to counter Verstappen being palmed off to the wall and being unable to carry on while Hamilton, who put him there, is able to collect 25pts and eat into 75-78% into his championship lead.

To label it as "misfortune" is lazy. There may be more "misfortune" to come?

The penalty at Silverstone won't deter Hamilton (as ascarracinguk seem to think?) as the next time he does it he could get the championship.

[crmalcolm]

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Ok man. I'll "read the room".

I'll also be looking forward to reading the comments on here the next time there's a controversial collision, particularly if it involves Hamilton and Verstappen, more so if Verstappen is the instigator and gets away with it, even more so if Hamilton is innocent but still gets penalised, and it decides the championships in Verstappen favour.

[steve_r]

.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

Ok man. I'll "read the room".

I'll also be looking forward to reading the comments on here the next time there's a controversial collision, particularly if it involves Hamilton and Verstappen, more so if Verstappen is the instigator and gets away with it, even more so if Hamilton is innocent but still gets penalised, and it decides the championships in Verstappen favour.

Yes, one of these circumstances will probably happen, this season, the next or the season after that.

But thanks for reading the room. Much appreciated.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Yes, one of these circumstances will probably happen, this season, the next or the season after that.

But thanks for reading the room. Much appreciated.

Why WHY did you have to reply….2LTC hasn’t replied for 2 days…he got impatient after attention and blinked first….delete and don’t fan the flames lol!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Why WHY did you have to reply….2LTC hasn’t replied for 2 days…he got impatient after attention and blinked first….delete and don’t fan the flames lol!