Michael Andretti is trying to buy an F1 team

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I thought the company behind the team is Haas Formula LLC, registered in North Carolina?

The UK entity (AFAIK), is related to the Banbury premises that operate as a forward base for European races.

Haas Formula UK operates the whole F1 team. You don’t turn over near $150m pa on an industrial unit.

[Mike Harte]

Ah, but if you read the UK companies accounts, it states that it's purpose is to supply services to it's parent company which is HAAS Formula LLP which provides all of the company's income. And that income comes from America.

[crmalcolm]

The parent company is Haas LLC, registered in NC, USA.
European operations are managed by the company registered as Haas Formula UK Ltd, registered in Banbury, UK.
Engine deals are managed by the company registered as Haas Formula Italia srl, registered in Parma, Italy.

Haas Formula UK, and Haas Formula Italia are both subsidiaries of Haas LLC.

If you look closely at the revenue streams of the European companies, you will see that bulk of their income comes from Haas LLC. The Mazepin money goes to Haas LLC, not Haas Formula UK.

[peebee2]

So? The point is they can write contracts with whichever entity they like, in whichever jurisdiction.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

So? The point is they can write contracts with whichever entity they like, in whichever jurisdiction.

The point being, a comment was posted highlighting that as an American company, Haas would not be allowed to accept Mazepin money.

A claim was then made that Haas is not registered as a US company. The wording of this claim implied that Haas would not be prevented from accepting Mazepin money.

After a bit of clarification, it is clear that Haas is an American company, with European subsidiaries.

So, the point is - does anyone think that an F1 team, regardless of where they are registered, would enter into a contract with an openly Putin-aligned company?

Is the country that Haas is registered in important? If not, why challenge the initial post that referred to Haas as an American company?

[bathurst77]

be they US or UK, the sanctions will probably be in lockstep

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

be they US or UK, the sanctions will probably be in lockstep

True, and I think outside of sanctions, F1 teams wouldn't touch the money anyway.

[midgetman]

Rumour has it the Andretti team will be based in the UK. Rich Energy's way back?

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The point being, a comment was posted highlighting that as an American company, Haas would not be allowed to accept Mazepin money.

A claim was then made that Haas is not registered as a US company. The wording of this claim implied that Haas would not be prevented from accepting Mazepin money.

After a bit of clarification, it is clear that Haas is an American company, with European subsidiaries.

So, the point is - does anyone think that an F1 team, regardless of where they are registered, would enter into a contract with an openly Putin-aligned company?

Is the country that Haas is registered in important? If not, why challenge the initial post that referred to Haas as an American company?

True. My point was that the Haas F1 team doesn’t necessarily have to abide by US sanctions, though they probably will.

[S griffin]

I don't think Haas will necessarily abide by them either. Obviously they will try and distance themselves from what is happening in Ukraine

[rbs]

I think HAAS will have to abide by the western worlds rules and Pietro Fittipaldi will be the replacement driver.

[bella]

this is extremely the wrong thread but…

the only existing sanctions they’re affected by are banking ones for taking cash from investor and sponsor to team. given how predictable this has been for a few weeks there will have been preparations going on in the background for sanctions. it could even be written into contracts. we don’t know.

movement of key staff with russian passports could potentially be an issue, but at the moment that’s not a consideration. i’m sure many if not all have residency visas that would circumvent the small print of sanctions because that’s what the types of visa you qualify for with a pot of cash are for.

so really we’re looking at restrictions the fia might impose on entrants, sponsors and competitors. i’m not sure they have the remit to make commercial demands on cashflow, but perhaps a change in sporting regs (a ball ache in its own right) could prohibit the promotion of russian owned companies or something. and there’s always the “bringing the sport into disrepute” clauses but given they let certain team bosses get away with that exact offence i doubt they’d activate this clause to exclude a huge investment. i’m not sure if the promoters of the series have commercial demands seperate to sporting regs or not.

so haas will be needing to do this off their own backs. if they’re looking to break the contract i’m sure daddy maz will want the relevant termination fee, plus they’ll need to buy him out if he owns any shares. so not only will there be a big hole in the cashflow on a regular basis they’d have to pony up a lump sum to buy back a share. which potentially breaches financial sanctions in itself.

messy eh.

[chunterer]

It is a mess!

Libbo and Gene need to talk to Andretti or work overtime to find a new title sponsor. That sort of dough can only come from a manufacturer or from private investment from the likes of China or the ME.

[bella]

which is exactly why i think they're going to be exploring and understanding (and probably liasing with stakeholders like the fia, f1 promoters etc) to what extent they can function as is without running close to bothering sanctions or risking goodwill.

unfortunately there's serious pr considerations because the f1 fanbase is rabid to say the least. it doesn't quite understand that if you take away one massive investor you have to find another willing to throw a whole load of money at the team and not get it back and that takes years. especially when you're a team who have been at the back end of the pack for the past few seasons.

[chunterer]

I wonder if Ferrari or Stellantis group will be asked to pitch in?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I wonder if Ferrari or Stellantis group will be asked to pitch in?

Whatever anyone thinks about Bernie Ecclestone, he has left such a large hole within the F1 family because it was exactly at times like this that he really stepped up to the plate and would happily help out financially. And I am not talking about small amounts, either.

[Richard C]

Can a mod move the Haas posts into the Haas thread?

Richard

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Can a mod move the Haas posts into the Haas thread?

Richard

Shhh, don't you know anything slightly Haas money related is just to show Andretti is going to be buying in? Even though both parties have said no discussions have taken place and Mario wouldn't pull his comments if he thought he there was a chance they could get Colton in there this season. There's ZERO chance he wouldn't be all over that in the media race weekend

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Whatever anyone thinks about Bernie Ecclestone, he has left such a large hole within the F1 family because it was exactly at times like this that he really stepped up to the plate and would happily help out financially. And I am not talking about small amounts, either.

Try finding his interview on Times radio yesterday Probably best he has moved on

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Shhh, don't you know anything slightly Haas money related is just to show Andretti is going to be buying in? Even though both parties have said no discussions have taken place and Mario wouldn't pull his comments if he thought he there was a chance they could get Colton in there this season. There's ZERO chance he wouldn't be all over that in the media race weekend

Haha. Yeah, I guess I can weave in other usual suspects and create some crazy theories that are related to Andretti and say it's all "on topic". Michael Masi to be employeed by Andretti in the "fill in the blank" role! Bernie Ecclestone to provide Andretti financing! Lewis and Max to partner at Andretti! Porsche to power Andretti! Audi to power Andretti! I think someone has already mentioned William Storey/Rich Energy.

Richard

[chunterer]

Mario has gone on record in an interview with David Land that the team is ready to commence the operation in the UK and the cars will have Alpine power! Just waiting for the FIA entry acceptance.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by bella

this is extremely the wrong thread but…

the only existing sanctions they’re affected by are banking ones for taking cash from investor and sponsor to team. given how predictable this has been for a few weeks there will have been preparations going on in the background for sanctions. it could even be written into contracts. we don’t know.

movement of key staff with russian passports could potentially be an issue, but at the moment that’s not a consideration. i’m sure many if not all have residency visas that would circumvent the small print of sanctions because that’s what the types of visa you qualify for with a pot of cash are for.

so really we’re looking at restrictions the fia might impose on entrants, sponsors and competitors. i’m not sure they have the remit to make commercial demands on cashflow, but perhaps a change in sporting regs (a ball ache in its own right) could prohibit the promotion of russian owned companies or something. and there’s always the “bringing the sport into disrepute” clauses but given they let certain team bosses get away with that exact offence i doubt they’d activate this clause to exclude a huge investment. i’m not sure if the promoters of the series have commercial demands seperate to sporting regs or not.

so haas will be needing to do this off their own backs. if they’re looking to break the contract i’m sure daddy maz will want the relevant termination fee, plus they’ll need to buy him out if he owns any shares. so not only will there be a big hole in the cashflow on a regular basis they’d have to pony up a lump sum to buy back a share. which potentially breaches financial sanctions in itself.

messy eh.

Isn't Haas F1 ultimately an American entity, in which case Haas would not be able to trade with a Russian entity?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Isn't Haas F1 ultimately an American entity, in which case Haas would not be able to trade with a Russian entity?

Only those specifically mentioned, try pushing a ban on funds from a non-named source and watch how fast you're no longer employed AND facing legal action that would take years to resolve