[BTCC] Round One, Donington Park 23-24 Apr, Races 1,2&3

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

Turkington being his usual idiot self not being able to take the fact his team mate is faster than him.

Both drivers have now admitted they were in the wrong to race each other at the time.
They've agreed on a plan going forward if they find themselves in the same position again.

[Pdh]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Both drivers have now admitted they were in the wrong to race each other at the time.
They've agreed on a plan going forward if they find themselves in the same position again.

I bet they haven’t agreed on a plan it’s more likely that the law has been laid down to them by management and they now tow the line

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by hen henths

With the camera angles used on the TV coverage I hardly ever saw the blue light through the car windows to indicate hybrid use (although I suppose my screen / eyesight could've been a factor), not that it mattered because I could see the blue symbols on the graphic next to the driver's name.

I wonder as the season goes on if I'll start to pay much less attention to it and focus a bit more on enjoying the racing. I think it's a good thing that they're promoting electric propulsion but for an old luddite like me who doesn't like things changing, I suppose seeing when they're using hybrid could be a little bit like seeing what gear each car is in. If they select the wrong gear, they might get overtaken, but I don't have to watch for that information to enjoy the race.

The blue lights didn't seem that obvious to me either. Not sure what it was like at the track?

Personally, I don't think they need to flash (particularly as rapidly as they do). But I would like the light to be more obvious if I'm looking for it. Maybe a larger more obvious steady light would work better?

While we're on the subject of flashing lights - is anyone else a bit over seeing Ingram get his disco strobe going when he is trying to pass a car? I think the headlights should be used to illuminate the track ahead, or to warn a car you are approaching - not as an attempt to distract another driver. It doesn't indicate any skill in passing a car, just a lazy attempt at dazzling the driver.

[hen henths]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

They've agreed on a plan going forward if they find themselves in the same position again.

Rock, paper, scissors, communicated by flashing the headlights in morse code, to decide who goes first, right?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Pdh

I bet they haven’t agreed on a plan it’s more likely that the law has been laid down to them by management and they now tow the line

Possibly. I think the 'they' is the collective team plan....

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by hen henths

Rock, paper, scissors, communicated by flashing the headlights in morse code, to decide who goes first, right?

Hill described it as working together to extend a lead before challenging each other.

[mprmke]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Hill described it as working together to extend a lead before challenging each other.

That’s exactly what they should have done. Turkington had a much better start than Hill and had the run on him. Hill shouldn’t have fought back at that point when they gapped the pack easily at that point.

As much as it goes against a racers instinct in many ways, for the good of the long game in the Championship, the most successful drivers know when and when not to challenge. If he’d followed Turkington for a couple of laps, Ingram would never have got a sniff, and unless there was a mechanical failure, or they fetched each other off later on, you could have all but guaranteed a WSR 1-2. Once they were way off down the road, then Hill could have thought about jostling for position with Turkington.

[porsche962fan]

result of that they are just 6th and 7th in standings , granted Turkington had that really big misfortune in race 2

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

result of that they are just 6th and 7th in standings , granted Turkington had that really big misfortune in race 2

I'm not sure it's that simple. Hill was DSQ'd, so whilst it didn't help the result at the time, it was irrelevant to Hill's eventual points tally.

[Daverb]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The blue lights didn't seem that obvious to me either. Not sure what it was like at the track?
.

Hard to see unless your looking straight at the side of the car. Just because of the leds I guess you need to be looking straight at them.

They might be better just staying on rather than flashing.

Watching the TV they were hard to see also. Especially on Hills side view you could just see it flashing

[WestHam92]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

To be fair to ITV (and not making excuses for Timbo) I would have thought that the graphics would have been supplied by TOCA to the broadcaster as the information of when it was deployed could have only come from the telemetry from the cars. This was the first time the system has been used and I'm sure there will be a lot if fine-tuning carried out as the season progresses.

The graphics have needed improving for a while, not just the hybrid deployment part of them at Donington. One of the biggest issues is that the positions don't update quickly enough. F1 graphics can keep up with overtakes, although I imagine this is because the transponders are faster.

Also, the graphics have also looked pretty much the same since the mid-2000s. Maybe the colours could be changed to match the championship's blue and white branding

[mprmke]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I'm not sure it's that simple. Hill was DSQ'd, so whilst it didn't help the result at the time, it was irrelevant to Hill's eventual points tally.

If the two BMW’s had been several seconds down the road, then Hill is highly unlikely to sustain the damage that caused him to be excluded from the results on Race 1.

He may still have been penalised for his start/starting position, but a much lesser penalty.

With Turkington’s Race 2 issue being unavoidable, that would have left Hill highly likely leading the Championship at the end of the day. His drive in race 2 and then relatively easy win in Race 3 limited the damage, but he should have still been much better off than he was.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by mprmke

If the two BMW’s had been several seconds down the road, then Hill is highly unlikely to sustain the damage that caused him to be excluded from the results on Race 1.

We're definitely in the world of 'ifs and maybes' here.

Personally - I'm not seeing the correlation between track position and making an error at the chicane. There are just too many unknowns to know for certain how it would have turned out.

For example - Ingram and Shedden were setting fastest laps in the middle of the race, and Hill only manged to get within a second of the car in front once on lap 14.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by WestHam92

One of the biggest issues is that the positions don't update quickly enough. F1 graphics can keep up with overtakes, although I imagine this is because the transponders are faster.

Position display isn't real-time, it will only update when the cars cross one of the transponder reading points. At Donington these are half way down Craner Curves, along the back straight (roughly where the old Dunlop bridge used to be), and at the finish line. There will be a similar set-up of 2 or 3 sectors ay every UK circuit.

If you want positions updated more often then it needs the circuits then it needs the circuits to install more update points, which obviously costs money. F1 has the clout to mandate that circuits do this, other series don't.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Position display isn't real-time, it will only update when the cars cross one of the transponder reading points. At Donington these are half way down Craner Curves, along the back straight (roughly where the old Dunlop bridge used to be), and at the finish line. There will be a similar set-up of 2 or 3 sectors ay every UK circuit.

If you want positions updated more often then it needs the circuits then it needs the circuits to install more update points, which obviously costs money. F1 has the clout to mandate that circuits do this, other series don't.

Believe it or not, F1 positional telemetry is relayed via the flag signal light panels. If you get a chance to look at the panels used for F1 races, they have a set of antennas on the top which receive data from the cars, which is how they do the automated blue flags. The amount of electronic trickery inside thos epanels is quite the sight!

Circuits such as Silverstone don't have a massively increased number of timing loops as compared to (say) Donington, because they're not needed.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Daverb

Hard to see unless your looking straight at the side of the car. Just because of the leds I guess you need to be looking straight at them.

They might be better just staying on rather than flashing.

Watching the TV they were hard to see also. Especially on Hills side view you could just see it flashing

I thought it was flashing because that's how LEDs look on TV?

[Robin Marriott]

The LEDs on the cars are only really needed for when you’re they’re trackside, Shirley?

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

The LEDs on the cars are only really needed for when you’re they’re trackside, Shirley?

Don't call me Shirley

[antnee]

Sack off the LEDs in the window and stick a flashing blue beacon on the roof

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by WestHam92

One of the biggest issues is that the positions don't update quickly enough.

Really? It's not endurance racing with cars laps down and several classes.

[3marinadrive]

Originally Posted by mprmke

If the two BMW’s had been several seconds down the road, then Hill is highly unlikely to sustain the damage that caused him to be excluded from the results on Race 1.

He may still have been penalised for his start/starting position, but a much lesser penalty.

With Turkington’s Race 2 issue being unavoidable, that would have left Hill highly likely leading the Championship at the end of the day. His drive in race 2 and then relatively easy win in Race 3 limited the damage, but he should have still been much better off than he was.

He wasn't judged to be out of position or moving before race one - he was initially but reversed back before the 5 seconds board so didn't receive a penalty - that was what they were looking at not a false start per se.

The fight with Turkington in race one - he had got the cut-back at turn one fairly and then Turkington squeezed him, edged him wide and forced him off line....so when folk are saying 'they should have worked together' either the team should have advised them not to fight which as Hill is there on equal terms to the other drivers couldn't be implemented - simply requested.

Hill proved to be quicker and had Turkington not forced him wide would have passed, pulled away and won.

He did two laps at 1.09.1 which was 0.3 quicker than anyone - including Turkington - and under the lap record - but his big mistake was clipping the tyres as it damaged the tracking and most importantly damaged the floor hence the ride-height infringement.

Had Turkington accepted second they would have likely had a 1-2 but maybe not as Ingram was quick enough to win and the Safety Car would have neutralised the lead the BMW's would have had.

One thing's certain - Hill has 100% shown he is the real deal in terms of pace and ability to both overtake (race 1 & 2) and control a race (race 3)...up there with Sutton and Ingram in terms of pure speed...

[porsche962fan]

could this be the begin of another Turkington - Jordan rivalry ? of course this time with Hill

[Daverb]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I thought it was flashing because that's how LEDs look on TV?

Nope they flash

[yellowbeard]

Originally Posted by antnee

Sack off the LEDs in the window and stick a flashing blue beacon on the roof

That'd probably improve Creesy's laptimes (and have Paul O'neill legging it)

[antnee]

Originally Posted by yellowbeard

That'd probably improve Creesy's laptimes (and have Paul O'neill legging it)

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