Castle Combe Autumn Classic.

[GCCheddaris]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Allstars and Classic Alfa Challenge were combined for the last race of this season at Silverstone, giving a grid of about 50. Can't see that working at smaller circuits. Alfa series has struggled to get more than 15-18 entries except at Festival Italia, of course........

Putting my anorak on last night, I had a look at grid sizes on TSL. Apart from Silverstone which had forty nine starters, (fifteen Alfas and thirty four Allstars) none of the other circuits where the HRDC raced last season would have had combined grids above the mid thirties while two, Lydden and Snetterton, would have had grids in the high twenties if the Alfa and Allstars grids had been combined. Apart from Silverstone the Allstars only achieved a grid of twenty once last season while the Alfas only managed it once as Lancsbreaker said, at Festival Italia at Brands Hatch. Taking off one or two who raced in both Alfas and Allstars most circuits (not Lydden admittedly) would be able to handle the combined grids and presumably save the HRDC money on circuit hire especially as the HRDC will be racing at bigger circuits with higher profile meetings next season.

[Lancsbreaker]

Well researched - whilst I've followed the Classic Alfa Challenge, I hadn't watched the AllStars much.....I can see the logic of trying to get full grids by combining the series, but I can see the potential for a few disappointed entrants next year.....

[GCCheddaris]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Well researched - whilst I've followed the Classic Alfa Challenge, I hadn't watched the AllStars much.....I can see the logic of trying to get full grids by combining the series, but I can see the potential for a few disappointed entrants next year.....

I agree, it's going to be interesting to see how racing at higher profile meetings is going to affect grid sizes. Will appearing at Silverstone and Brands (and Donington and Oulton) attract more entries as they seemed to this year or will entry fees have to rise maybe deterring existing entrants ? Only time will tell...

[Lancsbreaker]

Be interesting to see, for sure. I felt that Classic Alfa Challenge entry fees were a bit expensive last year -compared to what CSCC charged, for example - but presumably these races would have a common entry fee.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

Great news that FISCAR and the Historic Formula Ford 2000s will be on the bill next year. I was wondering if the Monopostos and Clubmans might fit the bill as most of the cars in those series are approaching historic status.

An addition to the Thruxton meeting is the Mighty Minis championship. Perhaps not often considered as a historic championship (although the cars are getting a bit mature) - but the racing is often good.

[GCCheddaris]

Mini Sevens and Miglias formed a part of the original Thruxton Historic, the Golden Anniversary meeting.

[Brynmor]

Originally Posted by kipper

An addition to the Thruxton meeting is the Mighty Minis championship. Perhaps not often considered as a historic championship (although the cars are getting a bit mature) - but the racing is often good.

I’ve said for a while now the Mighty Minis are in many ways closer to the racing / racer of the day during the 60’s than current Historic racing is.
It’s a great addition and will I’m sure be popular with spectators and drivers alike.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Well researched - whilst I've followed the Classic Alfa Challenge, I hadn't watched the AllStars much.....I can see the logic of trying to get full grids by combining the series, but I can see the potential for a few disappointed entrants next year.....

When series combine like this, I do think it tends to eventually put off some of the drivers of the original “one make series”. It will be interesting to see what happens.

I wonder whether it might be better to at least combine the Alfas with other classic Italian marques and recreate the old “Auto Italia series”.

Alternatively, I have often been surprised that someone hasn’t developed a “classic Porsche series” for the air cooled cars and the 924/944/928 water cooled cars only (at least I don’t think one exists) and the Alfas might then sit alongside those - an Alfa/ Porsche challenge if you will. Two historic marques with historic racing pedigrees and equally enthusiastic owners. Just a thought.

[v jones]

Unfortunately the mighty mini championship has now got small grids,the donor cars are more valuable as road cars,they are road cars with stickers and minimal safety equipment (bolt in cages). Serious drivers have gone over to sevens/migs.

[GCCheddaris]

Originally Posted by andy97

When series combine like this, I do think it tends to eventually put off some of the drivers of the original “one make series”. It will be interesting to see what happens.

I wonder whether it might be better to at least combine the Alfas with other classic Italian marques and recreate the old “Auto Italia series”.

Alternatively, I have often been surprised that someone hasn’t developed a “classic Porsche series” for the air cooled cars and the 924/944/928 water cooled cars only (at least I don’t think one exists) and the Alfas might then sit alongside those - an Alfa/ Porsche challenge if you will. Two historic marques with historic racing pedigrees and equally enthusiastic owners. Just a thought.

There seem to be numerous Porsche one-make series away from the Porsche Carrera Cup. There is a Porsche 911 series for older 911s but entries so far appear to have been sparse and they have combined with a Classic Boxster series. The Porsche Club series caters for slightly later Porsches, 997s, 996s, Caymans and Boxsters while the CALM All Porsche series caters for 924/944s and 968s as well as Caymans and Boxsters. There is also a series for Porsche Caymans and I think there is a class for 944s in one of the CSCC series.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

There seem to be numerous Porsche one-make series away from the Porsche Carrera Cup. There is a Porsche 911 series for older 911s but entries so far appear to have been sparse and they have combined with a Classic Boxster series. The Porsche Club series caters for slightly later Porsches, 997s, 996s, Caymans and Boxsters while the CALM All Porsche series caters for 924/944s and 968s as well as Caymans and Boxsters. There is also a series for Porsche Caymans and I think there is a class for 944s in one of the CSCC series.

Yes, demonstrates my point, all very split. Not that it matters but I would have thought that the PCGB would have run a classic race series that caters for all types of older cars, alongside their separate series for modern cars.

[GCCheddaris]

Precisely, and in many ways it illustrates much that is wrong with our national racing scene, with each of the major clubs organising their own marque championships thus diluting the pool of entrants available.

Back in the early 2000s, with the professionalisation of the Porsche Carrera Cup and it's entry on to the BTCC support programme, there were at least three other championships for Porsches and the situation hasn't improved since then.

Rationalisation ? It probably needs it, but there are probably too many vested interests to prevent it happening.

[coppice]

I once endured a round of the GT 3 Cup at Croft. About 5 cars droned around for 20 minutes or so , each a few seconds from the other. For sheer, mind crushing tedium it even failed to approach the low bar set by the Chevron GR8 series.

But the Porsche Giroflex series in the 80s ? 90s ? was excellent ,with big grids and class drivers like Mike Jordan

[Lancsbreaker]

There isn't a class for 944s in a CSCC series, but the B80 class does tend to have a high proportion of 944s - we used to run our 944 Turbo in it, and when we returned into the same class with our Alfa 75V6, were a little out-powered

[kipper]

Returning to the Thruxton Historic meeting, the Ferrari Formula Classic series (for pre-1999 cars) will have a triple-header at the meeting. Interestingly, the series seems to be gravitating towards more historic meetings - it'll also appear at the Donington Festival at the end of April; and Castle Combe's Autumn Classic.

[GCCheddaris]

That's interesting because the Autumn Classic has tended to be pre'66 until this year when the GTSCC Group One series appeared on it's programme. Maybe it's an acknowledgement that some series that have been around a while are more suited to Historic meetings than contemporary ones. After all, Group One was replaced by Group A forty years ago and the Classic Ferraris are nearing a quarter of a century. Also, wasn't the Ferrari Formula Classic series on the all Ferrari package this year. Is that carrying on ?

[kipper]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

Also, wasn't the Ferrari Formula Classic series on the all Ferrari package this year. Is that carrying on ?

Ferrari Formula Classic has generally been paired with the Ferrari Challenge UK (for much new, modified cars). The Challenge UK is still continuing - however, racing has always been a small part of that package. I assume that the time generated from FFC moving elsewhere will be given over to the track day/demonstration elements of the package.