LMDh (DPi regulations version 2.0)

[JT240Z]

Here's another article from IMSA about the hybrid system.

https://www.imsa.com/news/2022/04/06...d-power-works/

One quote in the article indicates that electric alone is possible:

Watching a 2023 WeatherTech Championship race trackside or on television, you probably won’t notice the new hybrid system in action – unless you catch a glimpse of an LMDh car silently gliding through the pits or the paddock on electric power alone.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by JT240Z

Here's another article from IMSA about the hybrid system.

https://www.imsa.com/news/2022/04/06...d-power-works/

One quote in the article indicates that electric alone is possible:

I kind of like the idea of leaving the pit lane on electric power. I think a few of the recent Road Atlanta testing videos showed cars doing that.

[JT240Z]

Originally Posted by joeb

I kind of like the idea of leaving the pit lane on electric power. I think a few of the recent Road Atlanta testing videos showed cars doing that.

What will be interesting is to see how they transition from all electric to internal combustion at pit out.

[Adam43]

Should be pretty seamless. It was in WEC when they had that and in road cars it is too. Mostly.

I like it too.

[broadrun96]

I just hope having the very mild hybrid battery back there is enough to not be meh, Toyota was cool cause they were launched out and didn't Prius roll. I don't want to see a slow roll and then launch at pit out when the ICE kicks in 600 some hp. Seems like a pointless add on when streetcars have that tech in CVT and "standard" autos in hybrids, one of the only things that actually works well in our old beat up CMaxxs at City Hall.

[PhilipR]

I have noticed from Sportscar media (and outlets that I love so no hate from me) how they are trying to explain how complicated and new world the hybrids are. And the car world have been dealing with Hybrids for over 20 years and more complicated, and more powerful hybrids have been raced for more than 10 years. Heck the LMH hybrids are more advanced and complicated than the LMDH ones. It all comes as an attempt to make it all look bigger than it is which irks me - again no hate on the outlets I still love them just my thoughts

One point that I see not being mentioned too much is that some engine/packages my gel better with the bosch hybrid than others. Will be interesting to see if that will be the case and how will that be sorted or maybe even BOP-ed.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

I have noticed from Sportscar media (and outlets that I love so no hate from me) how they are trying to explain how complicated and new world the hybrids are. And the car world have been dealing with Hybrids for over 20 years and more complicated, and more powerful hybrids have been raced for more than 10 years. Heck the LMH hybrids are more advanced and complicated than the LMDH ones. It all comes as an attempt to make it all look bigger than it is which irks me - again no hate on the outlets I still love them just my thoughts

One point that I see not being mentioned too much is that some engine/packages my gel better with the bosch hybrid than others. Will be interesting to see if that will be the case and how will that be sorted or maybe even BOP-ed.

I think your view is completely valid on the coverage. Same thing will probably happen with the Indycar unit when it comes online and the Nascar one eventually. They talk about racing the hybrid to improve street tech, but that is already beyond the race spec units!

We saw issues with the ECU that was supposed to be standard across DPi, some cars didn't use it as well as others, so the manufacturers were allowed to use an ECU of their choosing. Could have some type of issues with that again i suppose, but i think they are figuring all that out with the testing.

[PhilipR]

Originally Posted by joeb

I think your view is completely valid on the coverage. Same thing will probably happen with the Indycar unit when it comes online and the Nascar one eventually. They talk about racing the hybrid to improve street tech, but that is already beyond the race spec units!

We saw issues with the ECU that was supposed to be standard across DPi, some cars didn't use it as well as others, so the manufacturers were allowed to use an ECU of their choosing. Could have some type of issues with that again i suppose, but i think they are figuring all that out with the testing.

Well the hybrid is a 3rd party one so even the ones they might use in their customer cars will be quite different and provide different needs

Valid question - do people still buy cars based on that makes racing pedigree?
I doubt people who buy Ferraris, Porsches or Lamborghinis care too much about the makes F1 or sportscar racing record.

BOPed racing is proof of this to me. Manufacturers, especially in GT no longer make cars to a racing specification, they allow their product to be modified for racing and then the rest is dealt with by BOP - because racing has limited value to a makes customer base - Most former racing makes are now seen as luxury goods(Ferrari, Lambo , Porsche etc)

[seanyb505]

A little off topic here, but I'd say some of the current manufacturers built part of their reputation on pre bop racing. Think Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette. After the reputation was built, we've gone into maintenance mode. (Read: Marketing). The manufacturers will race as long as it makes marketing sense, not technical development sense. Losing all the time doesn't make marketing sense, and race promotors know close racing sells. Hence bop.

So the answer is yes I think people still buy cars based on racing. Just not the actual race product of today. Only anoraks on the fence care that there's a luxury Lexus duking it out with a Ferrari. Or anoraks in their living room.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

A little off topic here, but I'd say some of the current manufacturers built part of their reputation on pre bop racing. Think Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette. After the reputation was built, we've gone into maintenance mode. (Read: Marketing). The manufacturers will race as long as it makes marketing sense, not technical development sense. Losing all the time doesn't make marketing sense, and race promotors know close racing sells. Hence bop.

So the answer is yes I think people still buy cars based on racing. Just not the actual race product of today. Only anoraks on the fence care that there's a luxury Lexus duking it out with a Ferrari. Or anoraks in their living room.

THAT

The marketing guys need their job and as long as racing is cheaper than TV. horse racing, stick and ball sports branding, etc they'll be there. And remember just like the PSLs and fancy boxes at stadiums, the brand is there to bring the moneyed peoples together at the fancy box looking at the cars, most don't care what the car really is. My mom went to Indy with Rolls Royce guys who were selling my dad engines, she was the only one on the balcony of the pagoda. Everyone else was inside with the door closed making deals and talking engines, the race was just the event to bring people together and make money

And I have fallen in that buy it cause they race it, well it's on the race car, purchases. And have told them that's why, although PNC can eff right off even though they heavily support Indy. (Their loan system sucks and just not helpful at all) I bought Patron cause Ed came racing, I've tried to buy Motul oil cause they support multiple teams and other stuff. Sorry, haven't visited the Caymans yet Porsche Carrera Cup

[PhilipR]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

A little off topic here, but I'd say some of the current manufacturers built part of their reputation on pre bop racing. Think Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette. After the reputation was built, we've gone into maintenance mode. (Read: Marketing). The manufacturers will race as long as it makes marketing sense, not technical development sense. Losing all the time doesn't make marketing sense, and race promotors know close racing sells. Hence bop.

So the answer is yes I think people still buy cars based on racing. Just not the actual race product of today. Only anoraks on the fence care that there's a luxury Lexus duking it out with a Ferrari. Or anoraks in their living room.

TBH GT3 racing is a business in itself at this point. Would not be surprised if major GT3 manufacturers are making profit from just selling GT3 cars to clients as well as maintenance and sare parts. Heck the constant new evo version after 2-3 years seems to be a way of selling more cars/parts to existing customers.
Makes me think if LMdH will be similar and the manufacturers that have most cars on grid might actually stand to profit

Ok this was offtopic - back to main thread

[JT240Z]

Race on Sunday... Sell on Monday still lives in the USA. At least according to IMSA.

https://www.imsa.com/news/2022/10/20...monday-mantra/

[Adam43]

On Monday no dealership has any cars to sell so it’s a mute point at the moment

But yes it gets the name out there, in front of mind, etc…
Adds something to your name etc…
People involved get to go to the track and have a good time. So it increases engagement.

It isn’t, if it ever has been, literally win on Sunday nip down to the shops and pick one up on Monday.

Basically as said above by 505 and 96.

[PhilipR]

Originally Posted by JT240Z

Race on Sunday... Sell on Monday still lives in the USA. At least according to IMSA.

https://www.imsa.com/news/2022/10/20...monday-mantra/

I am not denying racing has an effect on sales - but for the expensive/luxury brands I imagine majority of their customers do not care or follow racing that closely.
Obviously for manufacturers they need to justify having a racing department and obviously an impact is not just buying an actual car , is buying merchandise and other memorabilia linked to the manufacturer.

And since we are in the times of customer BOP racing, win on Sunday could mean sell a gt3/ lmdh to a customer on Monday

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

I am not denying racing has an effect on sales - but for the expensive/luxury brands I imagine majority of their customers do not care or follow racing that closely.
Obviously for manufacturers they need to justify having a racing department and obviously an impact is not just buying an actual car , is buying merchandise and other memorabilia linked to the manufacturer.

And since we are in the times of customer BOP racing, win on Sunday could mean sell a gt3/ lmdh to a customer on Monday

It's not following the racing, it is 100% saying they raced it in the showrooms and look what it has won. They could not care any less if you attend a race, just look at our awards here.

If you don't think that's the reason, go look at the Mayfair Aston, BMW and MB shops. The back wall pictures were the race versions and could be seen from the street

[joeb]

The Caddy has been homologated

https://www.motorsport.com/imsa/news...test/10401325/

[broadrun96]

Well 963s might miss a bit of racing, Porsche saying don't expect customer cars until the end of April.

That's likely not until Laguna Seca for IMSA and MAYBE Spa for WEC

[joeb]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Well 963s might miss a bit of racing, Porsche saying don't expect customer cars until the end of April.

That's likely not until Laguna Seca for IMSA and MAYBE Spa for WEC

That is a shame but understandable. They have to gear up for 2-car programs in IMSA and the WEC. They will undoubtably have spare chassis and parts for those programs to make before they will allocate a customer team.

[veeten]

Well, looks like Alpine(Renault) might be interested in selling SUV's in america, which should make their LMDh eligible for IMSA.

http://roadandtrack.com/news/a426185...s-for-america/

[joeb]

Originally Posted by veeten

Well, looks like Alpine(Renault) might be interested in selling SUV's in america, which should make their LMDh eligible for IMSA.

http://roadandtrack.com/news/a426185...s-for-america/

Even if it were only for the endurance races it would be great to see!

In other news, Marshall has some great videos about GTP tech on the Racer youtube channel. Takehome point for me is they will be charging batters on acceleration at Daytona more than braking!

https://racer.com/2023/01/22/gtp-101...ng-strategies/

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by veeten

Well, looks like Alpine(Renault) might be interested in selling SUV's in america, which should make their LMDh eligible for IMSA.

http://roadandtrack.com/news/a426185...s-for-america/

You're assuming they would pay the ransom and get approved by IMSA. Oh, and everyone forgets the 50 hp Le Car.

[S griffin]

It would nice to see Alpine give it a try, even if it was a low key. The series has had tough times of late, so it's uncertain what will happen in the future, but Daytona should be fun as ever.

[S griffin]

I'm looking forward to seeing how Daytona goes. Great entry as there always is.