[WEC] The Unified Power Rankings (GTP / Hypercar)

[GT3_Fan]

So I am typing this after the 12 hours. If there is a manufacturer power ranking list post Super Sebring I guess it is this.

1. Toyota
2. Cadillac
3. Acura
4. Ferrari
5. Porsche
6. BMW
7. Vanwall
8. Peugeot
9. Glickenhaus

[pach233]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

So I am typing this after the 12 hours. If there is a manufacturer power ranking list post Super Sebring I guess it is this.

1. Toyota
2. Cadillac
3. Acura
4. Ferrari
5. Porsche
6. BMW
7. Vanwall
8. Peugeot
9. Glickenhaus

Interesting as I was sitting trackside I had the same idea of power rankings. I agree with all except I would put Ferrari 2nd. Best non Toyota pace and no reliabiliy issues. Team mistakes cost them and driver lineup is a ? but they still beat Cadillac to 3rd on Friday.

[TF110]

I agree with Ferrari being 2nd. Their pace is very close and they are a little faster than Cadillac. But once these teams head to Europe it'll be a new story. Sebring's bumps are unique so I'm hoping Peugeot is there on pace.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

So I am typing this after the 12 hours. If there is a manufacturer power ranking list post Super Sebring I guess it is this.

1. Toyota
2. Cadillac
3. Acura
4. Ferrari
5. Porsche
6. BMW
7. Vanwall
8. Peugeot
9. Glickenhaus

Who would have thought, a while ago, that Floyd would outperform Peugeot and Glickenhouse?

[Akrapovic]

I'm a Vanwall apologist. They're the very spirit of Le Mans - hack a car together and run it.

[crooky]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

So I am typing this after the 12 hours. If there is a manufacturer power ranking list post Super Sebring I guess it is this.

1. Toyota
2. Cadillac
3. Acura
4. Ferrari
5. Porsche
6. BMW
7. Vanwall
8. Peugeot
9. Glickenhaus

Funnily enough I did the same thing this morning. I value speed in the car more than reliability though it seems.

i.e I'd rather have a fast car that needs to be made more reliable than a slow car but reliable car that needs to be made faster.

So with that said here's my rankings.


1.Toyota
2.Ferrari
3.Acura
4.Cadillac
5.Porsche
6.BMW
7.Peugeot
8.ByKolles
9.Glickenhaus

[Adam43]

2-4 are hard to place. The rest pretty much fall into place. So I don't really disagree with GT3 or crooky. So to add to that view:

1.Toyota
2.Acura
3.Ferrari
4.Cadillac
5.Porsche
6.BMW
7.Peugeot
8.ByKolles
9.Glickenhaus

[Adam43]

Split into new thread for us to update post races.

But which sub-forum should it be in? er, let's move it around. It can be with the series that has had the latest race. So that is IMSA at the moment!

The madness of it all!

[veeten]

Using Sebring as a reference, we can use the cars' best lap, best speed, and best finishing spot to categorize them. With Cadillac and Porsche running in both series races, they have a weighted amount of data.

Looks like the one that has been put in the proper position is BMW, ahead of Peugeot, Glickenhaus, and Vanwall.

Good work so far, gentlemen.

[PhilipR]

One thing I would say about Porsche and BMW they are new to the formula
Cadillac and Acura have raced in DPI and are using same chassis manufacturer and probably quite a few carry on parts/set ups.

So maybe expected at the beginning for them to be more up to speed regardless of Porsche testing mileage

[joeb]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

One thing I would say about Porsche and BMW they are new to the formula
Cadillac and Acura have raced in DPI and are using same chassis manufacturer and probably quite a few carry on parts/set ups.

So maybe expected at the beginning for them to be more up to speed regardless of Porsche testing mileage

Cadillac and BMW use Dallara, while Acura uses Oreca and Porsche uses Multimatic for what its worth.

[PhilipR]

Originally Posted by joeb

Cadillac and BMW use Dallara, while Acura uses Oreca and Porsche uses Multimatic for what its worth.

I meant to say Cadillac and Acura use same chassis manufacturer as they did in the DPI era(dallara and oreca respectively)

They obviously have carry on knowledge and a working relationship...and experience of running such cars

Imagine Porsche and BMW will catch up by season's end. Let's remember Penske struggled with the Acura at the beginning as well in 2018 until it sorted the car and the team out

[Adam43]

There is a general trend that those with experience in their series are at the top. Those with experience and same car are at the very top. And of course there is a resource thing too. Perhaps we shouldn’t be too surprised.

The car/team that has over achieved based on this is Ferrari. Well done to them and we saw where their main weekness was - strategy and race consistency, which is the bit they have least experience off.

And Peugeot have underachieved, or at least haven’t taken advantage of their practice races and more time with the car.

[RL17]

Originally Posted by Adam43

There is a general trend that those with experience in their series are at the top. Those with experience and same car are at the very top. And of course there is a resource thing too. Perhaps we shouldn’t be too surprised.

The car/team that has over achieved based on this is Ferrari. Well done to them and we saw where their main weekness was - strategy and race consistency, which is the bit they have least experience off.

And Peugeot have underachieved, or at least haven’t taken advantage of their practice races and more time with the car.

Unfortunately Ferrari have years and years of experience of weak strategy and inconsistency (outside of WEC) to draw on from within their organisation https://tentenths.com/forum/images/smilies/rotate.gif

[veeten]

If anything else, what Graham wrote recently explains a boatload of not only Super Sebring but this entire season. Totally fits this discussion...

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...r-sebring.html

[Adam43]

Long Beach and Portimao up this weekend. I wonder what will change.

Any evidence for BoP? Any teams getting a better handle on their cars? Anyone just nailed it this weekend?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Long Beach and Portimao up this weekend. I wonder what will change.

Any evidence for BoP? Any teams getting a better handle on their cars? Anyone just nailed it this weekend?

Acura and Toyota were both good in opening practices, so nothing to change yet.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Adam43

2-4 are hard to place. The rest pretty much fall into place. So I don't really disagree with GT3 or crooky. So to add to that view:

1.Toyota
2.Acura
3.Ferrari
4.Cadillac
5.Porsche
6.BMW
7.Peugeot
8.ByKolles
9.Glickenhaus

Based on Q. Power ranking (IMSA only) are pretty clear, at least no. 1 and no.4

Acura
Cadillac
BMW
Porsche

So might think about swapping 5 and 6 in my overall list. But this is too early to say. Qualifying is nothing in endurance racing.

[joeb]

WEC fp3 has thrown some new information with Floyd and Peugeot mixing up the order!

[GT3_Fan]

Personally with Portimao and Spa close to each other and Long Beach and Laguna Close, I think I will hold on my personal ranking update until after all of those races.

[Adam43]

Yeah.

This is mainly confirming what we’ve had. But we need the races…

[veeten]

Porsche and BMW on the move in IMSA...

[veeten]

Toyota stays at the top, Ferrari holds, Porsche to 3rd with this weekend's efforts...
flip-flops between Cadillac and BMW... Big drop by Acura,..(thanks, Taylor) Peugeot, then Glickenhaus, and bring up the rear, Vanwall.

That's how I see it, ... How bout y'all?...

[Adam43]

I think Porsche is closer, as is BMW. And they need credit for the strategy at Long Beach. Is this enough to put them above Cadillac after this weekend. Hmmm, it's close.

I don't ping Acura for Taylor. Although I do consider drivers overall as part of the package. Which is why I'd like to see Ferrari's drivers get more hyper experience. In the power rankings I'm not really seeing it as a negative. For that result - man it was bad.

I've found out the result for Portimao. It was too much to avoid and play on the computer. However, I will consider my power ranking later. Ferrari/Acura, Caddy/Porsche/BMW and Glickenhaus/Vanwall potentially could change for me...

[Adam43]

Let's go!

A little less of a gap from 1st to the rest. 2nd/3rd still close? 4th-6th close. And some stronger than before performances from 7th and 8th. A sad 9th.

1. Toyota (no move)
Clearly the top - they got the win and pole on the way. Although I feel the gap is a little less now.
And reliability (albeit related to a standard sensor) hit them.

2. Acura (no move)
Judging on pace. I think Aucra still has the gap above the others - enough to say more better than Ferrari.
Not studied the consistency of the lap times yet, so just a feel.

3. Ferrari (no move)
Ferrari using more energy for its pace relative to Toyota. Porsche seem OK here.
And it was really bad when it had its hybrid problems on 51.
The operation, the way they run the race, and the drivers still feel new. Unlike Toyota. Driver even tried to pit in the wrong box.

4. Porsche (up 1)
A win! A great strategy despite the questions over the tire wear of the car - chose the perfect race to try that at.
Not perfect though - Porsche power steering problem in WEC.

5. Caddilac (down 1)
Looks like a very drivable car. Although I suspect they are disappointed with the results this weekend.
And in WEC seemed to be behind the pace of the Porsche. Although I think the stronger Caddy's are in IMSA, despite Westbrook and Bamber's efforts.
4th to 6th are close - Caddy could be placed above Porsche, or below BMW; Giving Porsche the credit for the win and the pace in above Caddy in WEC, but giving Caddy a bit of a benefit of the doubt over BMW.

6. BMW (no change)
Seems unfair after a nice strong showing.

7. Peugeot (no change)
Better than Sebring

8. Glickenhaus (up 1)
Said they learnt a lot at Sebring. Looked like that. Still needs more testing.

9.Vanwall (down 1)
Slower and less reliable. We even got a (brake) fire. Almost want to give them a credit for that. Villeneuve grabbing all the luck there. No cars were impounded so, which is a good thing.