Track Limits

[S griffin]

Hopefully we will have less of a problem at Silverstone this weekend

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by Woolley

So, something like grass. Preferably a bit bumpy so they a) know they're on it, b) don't want to be, and c) it slows them down when they are.

Just like Mid-Ohio. No track limits problems there.



Can't say I even understand that comment. What has 'woke' to do with anything? Odd.

I have long been a proponent of strips of grass on the outside of the kerb. On this track they want to facilitate MotoGP as. This could be a solution for that. Either make it reversible or add to plates on top of each other with a different friction coefficient that you can switch around depending on if cars or bikes are racing.

[Plantagenet]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Hopefully we will have less of a problem at Silverstone this weekend

I'm afraid that both Copse and the Maggots/Becketts/Chapel sequence will be highly liable for abuse. Hopefully my pessimism will prove to be misplaced.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I don’t think it needs to be over complicated, a simple 3 metre minimum strip of grass at the track edge is all that is required in my opinion. You can then have tarmac after that or more grass or gravel. A thinner strip will just invite drivers to floor it over the strip and therefore be ineffective.

I agree it doesn't need to be complicated, although F1 is notorious for choosing a complicated solution over a simple one. I think 1m of grass may be enough, but if it needs to be 3m, I'm fine with that too.

If the grass is followed by tarmac run-off, it will require a lot of maintenance to prevent it forming a step at the transition onto the tarmac. Gravel will be easier.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

How do you prevent the grass from becoming damaged and resulting in divots?

Stop people playing golf on it.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Mix it with concrete? Is that grasscrete still a thing?

Grasscrete wouldn't work. It's supposed to have friction similar to concrete but look like grass. Like many compromises, it doesn't do either thing well.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Plantagenet

I'm afraid that both Copse and the Maggots/Becketts/Chapel sequence will be highly liable for abuse. Hopefully my pessimism will prove to be misplaced.

I'm optimistic that your pessimism is misplaced. The drivers should now understand the penalties for abuse. They are perfectly capable of driving within track limits. They've just lost the habit.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Grasscrete wouldn't work. It's supposed to have friction similar to concrete but look like grass. Like many compromises, it doesn't do either thing well.

But as a deterrent for going wide it should work, no?

[S griffin]

Well that's the thing. Drivers have gone wide at corners, even when there's grass. Sometimes they've got away with it, sometimes they haven't, but at least they know there's a risk if they get it wrong there

[Aysedasi]

More than a risk. They need to be hit hard if they start doing it again. The first few penalties need to be severe enough to make that risk massively outweigh the benefit.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Just put reservable 1 meter wide plating on the outside of the first kerb. One side is tarmac or tarmac equal friction coefficient so the bikes have their safe track limit. The other side is a very low friction coefficient sort of astroturf surface. If you go on it, you will definitely lose time. You flip the plates depending on if you have a bike or car race. No need to store them anywhere, no need for an optical track limit system with penalties. If you go outside the wide line the track will punish you automatically.

Brilliant idea. Good to remind that some tracks are both homologated for F1 and Moto GP. As to the "other side" may be it could offer a very high friction as is the case at Paul Ricard. If you go too far outside, the car is almost stopped and the tires damaged. This is dissuasive, not dangerous and kind of penalty in itself. As you, I think it can be done with plates safely bolted. I don't think the grass is a viable solution and gravel traps must be far from the track limits. IMO.

[broadrun96]

And keep in mind, when it is damp magically they all stay away from the painted lines they used in the dry, amazing that. Maybe just drive the damn track and pay the penalty when you don't and double penalty when you cry on the radio about the driver in front of you constantly. And then the media director for F1 gets fired out the window for deciding that's what radio is needed

[bathurst77]

I think there is a white line all around the track, if you are completely outside it you are out, like every sport.

If there are a few problematic corners such as in Austria 9 10, then the circuit should be told to change the corner shape, add a metre of tar or something. But f1 isnt supposed to be easy. IF some drivers can stay in the lines and d fast laps while others cant, thats the ggame

[Sodemo]

A physical deterrent will always be the best solution in my eyes. It acts as both a deterrent and punishment all in one. It’s funny how we talk about classic tracks being covered in tarmac, yet some of the newer street circuits don’t have any run off at all. It’s almost as if there is a double standard at play in what is acceptable and required from a circuit.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

And keep in mind, when it is damp magically they all stay away from the painted lines they used in the dry, amazing that. Maybe just drive the damn track and pay the penalty when you don't and double penalty when you cry on the radio about the driver in front of you constantly. And then the media director for F1 gets fired out the window for deciding that's what radio is needed

Fantastic. This one made my day! Merci beaucoup. By the way, fully agreed…

[v8supes]

Just wanted to share this video with you all of the 2003 Austrian GP qualifying session. Track limits? What track limits..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnwJBzqvc4w

Although its way over the top, i find this much more exciting to watch than todays Formula. Thats very much a ME problem though.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by v8supes

Just wanted to share this video with you all of the 2003 Austrian GP qualifying session. Track limits? What track limits..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnwJBzqvc4w

Although its way over the top, i find this much more exciting to watch than todays Formula. Thats very much a ME problem though.

Awesome! Thanks for sharing, very exciting (and I think the howling V10 soundtrack added to the effect for me too!)
Plus, I'd forgotten about Ralf Firman's F1 career in the Jordan...

[S griffin]

And of course it was the first year we had one lap qualifying. That was fun to watch, until everyone got on top of it and the novelty went away

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Fantastic. This one made my day! Merci beaucoup. By the way, fully agreed…

In fairness it was not my observation as articulate, the guys on Sky actually called drivers out for it. I just noticed no tracks limits warnings come up in the rain