Overtaking

neilap · 30 Oct 2002, 16:51 (Ref:417642)

http://www.barf1fans.com/2002/october/40.html

I found this interesting. I don't know how accurate it is but it is still interesting. They site seems proud of JV's overtaking. I would be more disappointed because to me it means he/the team does not qualify well. They could and should have scored more points. Even Yoong made passes!! OMG!

Damon · 30 Oct 2002, 17:10 (Ref:417656)

Quote:

Originally posted by neilap
They site seems proud of JV's overtaking.

Well the site is called 'barf1fans' so they're probably a little biased.

Glen · 30 Oct 2002, 17:12 (Ref:417659)

Check out Sato vs Fisi!

More importantly - check out Ralf vs JPM! Guess which of those two is the natural racer!

Damon · 30 Oct 2002, 18:32 (Ref:417716)

yeah, RS 3 overtakes to JPM's 17, starting at the same part of the grid!

Sato san · 30 Oct 2002, 19:27 (Ref:417766)

first lap, and passes aren't counted unless the gained position is held until the start of the next lap.
Total Driver Aus Mal Bra SMa Spa Aut Mon Can Eur GBr Fra Ger Hun Bel Ita USA Jap
39 Jacques Villeneuve 4 - 5 - 3 10 - - 6 3 - 2 - 2 - 3 1
21 Takuma Sato 1 - 4 - - - 1 5 1 3 1 2 - - - 3 -
20 Heinz Harald Frentzen - - 3 1 2 3 1 - 5 5 / / / / / / /
19 Juan Pablo Montoya 1 7 4 - - 1 - 2 - - - 1 - 1 1 1 -
18 Rubens Barrichello - - 5 - - - 2 - - 9 - - - - 2 - -
18 Mika Salo 1 2 3 - - - 2 5 1 - - 2 - - - 2 -
16 Michael Schumacher 2 10 - - - - - - 1 1 1 - - - 1 - -
14 Enrique Bernoldi - - 1 1 - - 1 1 4 4 / 2 / / / / /
13 Felipe Massa - - 1 1 2 - - 1 - 3 - 3 - 2 - - -
12 Kimi Räikkönen 6 - 1 - - - - - - 4 - - - - - 1 -
11 Nick Heidfeld - 1 - 2 1 - - - - 4 - 2 - - 1 - -
11 Olivier Panis - 1 - - - - - - 1 2 - 2 - - 2 3 -
10 David Coulthard 1 - 1 - 1 - - - - 1 - 1 1 - 4 - -
10 Jenson Button - 1 - - - - 1 1 1 1 - 1 - - 2 2 -
10 Pedro de la Rosa - 2 1 - - - - - 2 2 1 - - - 1 1 -
10 Mark Webber 1 - - - - 1 1 - - 1 - 2 - - 2 1 1
9 Jarno Trulli - - - - 1 - - - 4 - - 1 - - 2 1 -
7 Allan McNish - 3 1 - - 1 - - 1 - - 1 - - - - -
7 Eddie Irvine 1 - - - - - - - - - 3 - - - 3 -
4 Giancarlo Fisichella - - - 1 - 1 - - - 2 - - - - - - -
3 Ralf Schumacher - - - - - 1 - - - 2 - - - - - - -
3 Alex Yoong 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2 - -
0 Ant Davidson / / / / / / / / / / / / - - / / /
285

Sato san · 30 Oct 2002, 19:28 (Ref:417767)

way to go Taku !...good stuff indeed .

but im suprised Ralf can see anything down there at the bottom of the list . It must be a bit on the dark side !

DNQ · 30 Oct 2002, 20:28 (Ref:417812)

San Marino 6
Hungary 1
Japan 2

No wonder F1 is so dull

neilap · 30 Oct 2002, 20:32 (Ref:417814)

I don't think the fact that it is on a BAR site questions its credibility. However they put a good spin on what I consider to be a bad thing. JV should not have to pass that many people nor should have Sato.
On the good side they were able to make good of a bad situation. Maybe its not just the drivers but the whole team does not seem able to get the car together for qualifications. With the new standards for qualifying the teams need to be on the ball. BAR, especially have been notorious for poor qualifying attempts.

Yeah RS had a whopping 3 passes. Maybe he led more races than anyone else... no thats not it. Maybe all of his passes were missed by the person doing the counting... no thats not it either. What could it be?

Wrex · 30 Oct 2002, 23:31 (Ref:418040)

This was posted a couple of months ago.

And the figure's are a little inaccurate. I remember someone pointing out some missed passes at San Marino, can't remember who.

As for Monty's figures, 11 are from Sepang and Brazil where he effectively started from the back.

Yoong is missing his pass on Webber an Suzuka?

Ralf's pass on Monty at Monza?

I think this table is generally rubbish and does'nt really represent anything. Are we to deduce JV is the best driver, that Sato is better than Fisi, & Salo better than Schumacher?

neilap · 30 Oct 2002, 23:46 (Ref:418052)

Well until I see something that better illustrates the passes made this will have to do. Yoongs pass? Did he not spin off the track soon after? When did RS pass JPM in Monza? This, as stated does not illustrate passes made at the start of the race. If memory serves me correct, did RS not blow up on that lap? Maybe it was a few laps into the race, I don't quite remember,maybe lap 3, either way it was done at the start of the race. It is up the the reader to interpret what the figures mean. I don't think it is rubbish at all. If not perfect it at least shows where most of the action was on the grid.

Wrex · 30 Oct 2002, 23:53 (Ref:418056)

Quote:

Originally posted by neilap
If not perfect it at least shows where most of the action was on the grid.

Absolutely.

And if the FIA seriously want to stop Ferrari's team orders and increase ratings, having the camera's pointed at this action unstead of the procession at the front will cure that in a heart beat.

I would much rather watch passing at P12/13 than watch Michael open up another second per lap.

Damon · 31 Oct 2002, 16:06 (Ref:418592)

That's probably why we lucky sky viewers where coming on here after certain races to say how amazing they were only to be greated by people voting it the most boring race of the year! If ITV get access to the digital feed next year then it will instantly make an improvement to the show as the director seems to actually know what he's doing.

Mr V · 31 Oct 2002, 20:36 (Ref:418804)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
And the figure's are a little inaccurate.

Agreed, it doesn't list Montoya's overtake on Rubens at Silverstone as an example, i'm sure that it's proberbly missing a few more for all the other drivers. JV excepted maybe.

Mr V · 31 Oct 2002, 20:39 (Ref:418808)

Although they've proberbly got Rafes overtakes correct

Sato san · 31 Oct 2002, 21:29 (Ref:418850)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
Yoong is missing his pass on Webber an Suzuka?

Ralf's pass on Monty at Monza?

the figures dont count the first lap, or race starts..its about during the race after the first lap has been done.

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
Are we to deduce JV is the best driver, that Sato is better than Fisi, & Salo better than Schumacher?

yep...im happy with that if you are WREX !

I think the figures are correct about Ralf though .....its all weve been talking about all season.

Jordi · 31 Oct 2002, 23:38 (Ref:418961)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
Are we to deduce JV is the best driver, that Sato is better than Fisi, & Salo better than Schumacher?

I don't deduce JV is the best driver.

I already think Jacques is the best...

ASCII Man · 1 Nov 2002, 01:18 (Ref:419006)

What's a deduce?

Valve Bounce · 1 Nov 2002, 01:51 (Ref:419024)

Actually, barf means you go to the loo and talk to God in the giant telephone.

BootsOntheSide · 1 Nov 2002, 15:28 (Ref:419453)

Of course not Wrex. JV can be defined as the driver who's raicng is the most superior to his qualfying. Interesting that he trounces Panis in this statistic as well as in qualfying, we can see who was in charge there. Montoya's stats are impressive even though Malaysia and Brazil added quite a few, but Ralf looks very inept indeed from this, he was outqualified by Montoya more often (although his total qualifying time across all 17 races was better). Fisichella doesn't look so great now either, although obviously he consistantly qualified well close to the maximum of the car.

neilap · 1 Nov 2002, 17:13 (Ref:419582)

Quote:

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Of course not Wrex. JV can be defined as the driver who's raicng is the most superior to his qualfying. Interesting that he trounces Panis in this statistic as well as in qualfying, we can see who was in charge there. Montoya's stats are impressive even though Malaysia and Brazil added quite a few, but Ralf looks very inept indeed from this, he was outqualified by Montoya more often (although his total qualifying time across all 17 races was better). Fisichella doesn't look so great now either, although obviously he consistantly qualified well close to the maximum of the car.

Thank you!! This is what I was attempting to point out. Some drivers like GF did an excellent job in quallifying so his passes are low. While JV does not seem to have his heart in qualifying. This is also examplified by Sato, he is a racer but needs to work on qualifying. He often sets faster laps that GF but does not seem to be able to get the perfect lap in for qualifying.

R · 1 Nov 2002, 19:02 (Ref:419688)

Quote:

Originally posted by ®îjñtjûh
What's a deduce?

®îjñtjûh, www.dictionary.com is a very helpful site to know of for us non native English speakers. I use it quite often when I come across a word which I don't understand.

Quote:

de·duce

tr.v. de·duced, de·duc·ing, de·duc·es

1. To reach (a conclusion) by reasoning.
2. To infer from a general principle; reason deductively: deduced from the laws of physics that the new airplane would fly.
3. To trace the origin or derivation of.

alchemy · 1 Nov 2002, 21:26 (Ref:419790)

I bet if they had a tally of how many times drivers ‘dumped it’ old JV would do pretty well too!

Wrex · 2 Nov 2002, 02:20 (Ref:419978)

Well done R, I did'nt know what it meant either

**Adam43** · 2 Nov 2002, 09:57 (Ref:420036)

Not many people here do

I like this table, it's a bit of fun. Obviously people who start at the front have less chance to overtake. (When Michael and Montoya lost time in Malaysia they had too do lots of overtaking, but they had the advantage of a much faster car).

f1manoz · 2 Nov 2002, 10:11 (Ref:420047)

Quote:

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
Actually, barf means you go to the loo and talk to God in the giant telephone.

Hail the Porcelain God!

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