[Official] Australian Grand Prix 2024: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 3 of 24

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Possibly you are overlooking the fact that Alonso admitted, and the data confirmed, that after his initial braking early - which again he admitted was his mistake - Alonso has admitted he cocked up his approach to the corner, and he was desperately trying to put off Russell so as to avoid the inevitable immediately after they hit the straight and the DRS.

I think it is likely Alonso “admitted” to all of this after he got his hand caught in the cookie jar.My guess it was a premeditated piece of driving to lessen Russel’s DRS advantage in the upcoming zone.

[Beau2]

Originally Posted by Richard C

Not saying this isn't true, but can you point to a source for that information?

Richard

No official source I'm afraid but I have read several accounts of people that have viewed Russel's data. The view seems to be that he broke 10m later than normal & was carrying 10kp/h more speed than previous laps in order to get a good exit.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Beau2

No official source I'm afraid but I have read several accounts of people that have viewed Russel's data. The view seems to be that he broke 10m later than normal & was carrying 10kp/h more speed than previous laps in order to get a good exit.

As I wrote before, that would a very significant detail that would have a bearing on the Stewards deliberations. Yet it is not mentioned at all in their report which makes me think that it's possibly the result of Chinese Whispers or even a conspiracy theory by those who cannot believe what is written.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Beau2

No official source I'm afraid but I have read several accounts of people that have viewed Russel's data. The view seems to be that he broke 10m later than normal & was carrying 10kp/h more speed than previous laps in order to get a good exit.

Far enough. I can believe that, but would like to see actual reports vs. gossip. I could paraphrase Alonso's comment in that drivers should not be expected to drive exactly the same lap after lap. So if Russell wanted to attack on the corner and carry more speed into it, that would be allowable. Was that speed excessive and caused (or would have caused) the crash when viewed in isolation of other facts? More thoughts below...

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It's certainly not in the Stewards' report which I would have thought they would have mentioned as it may well have been a contributing element. Oh, I should add that the Stewards also had all the data and telemetry for Mercedes as well as from Aston Martin.

I think the overall wording of the Steward's decision is important. They don't try to address "why" Alonso was doing what he was doing. Just that the action was dangerous. They also don't delve into the cause of the accident other than listing Russell's comment that the unexpected closing of distanced resulted in loss of front end aero mid-corner.

I leave room for the potential for George to have screwed it up all on his own, but that is a hypothetical that would have to remove Alonso and his actions from the situation. That can't really be done. But if you tried, the only potential way is if Russell's telemetry shows he had no chance of making the corner at his entry speed. Meaning that regardless of what Alonso did Russell was going to crash. And I am assuming (as you say Mike) that the stewards looked at this data and felt that this was not the case, or was a lesser factor than Alonso's actions. I think if Russell's telemetry showed he had no chance to make the corner Alonso's team would have used that information to fight back during the stewards discussion or part of an appeal.

I don't have super strong feelings on this. What I am more passionate about is the statements from others as to cause that are more about "feelings" and in which it seems the information that is available is ignored. Or... that the level of games Alonso was playing in that corner is acceptable.

The stewards can clearly get things wrong. But I think this likely ended up being a very "evidence" or objective based ruling vs. a more subjective call such as something like "who owned a corner when there was contact" or that type of judgement call.

Richard

[Sodemo]

I just think ive seen far worse driving go unpunished so I dont know, maybe its a new directive or something, but the likes of Verstappen, Schumacher, Perez have all done things that have been very dangerous on track and in some cases they have been punished (granted), but I think in some other situations they got away with it.

Perhaps not directly related to the crash, but wouldn't it be great if F1 could reach a point where the front wings are purely there for handling tweaking and not actually to generate thousands of kilos of downforce? If the front wing "only" generated say 100kg of downforce @ 250kph you probably wouldn't have had this accident. I think in this case you could argue that actually it was a contributing factor in the accident. The problem is though is that all the teams and single seaters in general are drunk on downforce so getting them to sober up off of it is going to be a tough ask.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I just think ive seen far worse driving go unpunished so I dont know, maybe its a new directive or something, but the likes of Verstappen, Schumacher, Perez have all done things that have been very dangerous on track and in some cases they have been punished (granted), but I think in some other situations they got away with it.

I believe that the tightened the rules about this type of driving in the last few years, but they tightened them further this season plus they included the potential for the Stewards to penalise drivers with a pits' drive through, which is up from a ten second penalty. This is also included in the Stewards' report.

It would appear that the FIA seems to be attempting to stop erratic and/or dangerous driving, which is what Alonso was penalised for. We shall have to see whether they are consistent with this in the future, but somehow I doubt it as they do not have the same team of Stewards at each and every race. One man's poison, etc.

[Skam85]

The fact that Alonso got the equivalent of a drive-thru for what was at worst, a little clumsy, and that F3 kid Tsolov got a three place grid penalty for directly swerving into a competitor causing him to crash is wild.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Skam85

The fact that Alonso got the equivalent of a drive-thru for what was at worst, a little clumsy, and that F3 kid Tsolov got a three place grid penalty for directly swerving into a competitor causing him to crash is wild.

This is a fair point to be honest.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Skam85

The fact that Alonso got the equivalent of a drive-thru for what was at worst, a little clumsy, and that F3 kid Tsolov got a three place grid penalty for directly swerving into a competitor causing him to crash is wild.

Can’t disagree with that. Intent should have more to do with it. Definitely what Tsolov did was worse

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Skam85

The fact that Alonso got the equivalent of a drive-thru for what was at worst, a little clumsy, and that F3 kid Tsolov got a three place grid penalty for directly swerving into a competitor causing him to crash is wild.

As I don't follow F3, can I assume this was a race held during the GP meeting?

If so, the problem arises that, looking on the FIA website, the F3 race is not an official FIA championship and therefore, I assume again, that the race director and stewards for that race would have been different to those who oversaw the F1 race.

This may account for the different disciplinary outcomes which is unfortunate to say the least.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

As I don't follow F3, can I assume this was a race held during the GP meeting?

If so, the problem arises that, looking on the FIA website, the F3 race is not an official FIA championship and therefore, I assume again, that the race director and stewards for that race would have been different to those who oversaw the F1 race.

This may account for the different disciplinary outcomes which is unfortunate to say the least.

F3 is an official FIA championship.

https://www.fia.com/events/formula-3.../fia-formula-3

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

F3 is an official FIA championship.

https://www.fia.com/events/formula-3.../fia-formula-3

Yes and I assume it has the same stewards as F1 too? Which would make their contradicting punishments even more bizarre

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

F3 is an official FIA championship.

https://www.fia.com/events/formula-3.../fia-formula-3

BJ, I think that that is the European Championship, and I don't think that was in Australia.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

BJ, I think that that is the European Championship, and I don't think that was in Australia.

This page from Formula1.com lists the events and their times for the Australia GP, like practice sessions, qualifying etc., and included is FIA Formula 3, with the first practice session from 08:50 - 09:35.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/formula-1-rolex-australian-grand-prix-2024-timetable.35pSr8fOjnAg44Th7E8bOm

[Greem]

Current season FIA F3 info is here: https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formu.../fia-formula-3

[Akrapovic]

It was an FIA F3 race in Australia. Same weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vuupMbOSLY

Video of the incident.

[Aysedasi]

Hmmm. 3 place grid penalty? He shouldn't have been on the grid at all after that.....

[Mike Harte]

Firstly, apologies for my stupidity.

However, looking at the Stewards reports, they did have different Stewards for both races. I'm going to guess that they possibly also had a different race director as well.

By the way, I don't disagree with the proposition that the driver under discussion shouldn't have also received at least the same penalty if what is claimed, and I have no knowledge either way, took place.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Hmmm. 3 place grid penalty? He shouldn't have been on the grid at all after that.....

Yes, it’s time stewards came down harder on this type of driving

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Greem

Current season FIA F3 info is here: https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formu.../fia-formula-3

Alternately there is a dedicated FIA F3 website for its championship. Under the "Guide to F3" link on that page it refers to it being the official third rung on the road to F1 ladder and later in the section linked highlights FOM is responsible for the marketing of the FIA F3 championship to ensure global reach and appeal. .

.... to form an official third rung of the Road to F1 ladder. Combining GP3 and European F3, the idea was to create a defined entry point for young and ambitious drivers to join the Formula 1 circus, and to give them the chance to take the path to join their heroes in the main paddock.

https://www.fiaformula3.com/About/6S...hampionship-f3