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1 Jul 2024, 14:20 (Ref:4217506) | #51 | ||
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Points differences are irrelevant, as unless he falls off his push bike and breaks a leg, Verstappen will be WDC no matter what others do.
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1 Jul 2024, 14:22 (Ref:4217507) | #52 | ||
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1 Jul 2024, 14:51 (Ref:4217509) | #53 | |||
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There are also poor race results and DNFs. Verstappen has had one of each so far and come Silverstone, the 2024 season will be half way through. A lot can happen between then and the chequered flag at Abu Dhabi. |
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1 Jul 2024, 16:20 (Ref:4217516) | #54 | |||
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You are not the only one that thinks the same; saying that because his past actions weren't seriously dealt with in the past, he still thinks that he can get away with his antics. From Autosport/Motorsport: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...2021/10630267/ |
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1 Jul 2024, 17:03 (Ref:4217519) | #55 | ||
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Richard |
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1 Jul 2024, 18:40 (Ref:4217527) | #56 | ||
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Yes, that’s very true. He hasn’t been challenged enough to expose his dark side. Although there were still hints of it, like Vegas last year |
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1 Jul 2024, 22:24 (Ref:4217540) | #57 | ||
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I'm going to go out on a limb here re the Max & Lando show.
Most of the great champions have a dark side, an utterly ruthless streak, an obnoxious side to their emotional make up. It's part of what makes them champions - the belief that they are better, the drive to succeed at the expense of all else, the simple approach that winning is the only thing that matters, regardless of how it is achieved. We've seen it in Hamilton, Vettel, Schumacher, Senna and others - and now we're seeing it in Max. I don't believe that it ever went away, just that he wasn't challenged enough to bring it out. No question he's one of the greats but also no question that the dark side is going to show itself from time to time - I also suspect that having his dad quacking in the background ramps it up a bit. I also think that turn 3 in Austria leads to many clumsy, or marginal overtaking moves. Time and time again over the years, we've seen cars clash there, run wide, get a pass done only to go too deep under brakes etc. etc. It seems that overtaking cars have to risk much more there and put themselves (to an extent) at the mercy of those they are trying to pass - regardless of whether they are bombing up the inside or having a crack on the outside. Combine the dark side of a champion with the corner and we got what we got. It also appeared that turn 3 was Lando's only realistic passing spot on Max, so we were almost guaranteed some fireworks. None of it is particularly attractive but I wasn't surprised as it all went down. |
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1 Jul 2024, 22:35 (Ref:4217541) | #58 | ||
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After that start in Spain and now Austria, I suspect Lando will also take another step in this direction. He needs to decide if he’s there to make friends or win chips…if he hasent decided already.
They grow up fast! |
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2 Jul 2024, 10:25 (Ref:4217570) | #59 | |||
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Moving on to the penalty, it seems to me that the system of delivering penalties for causing a collision are too inflexible. If a 10 second penalty doesn't change a driver's position because he has more than a 10 second lead over the next car, I don't have a problem with that. He has earned that lead. However I think it's iniquitous that the transgressor goes home with more championship points than his victim. In my view, if the collision causes the retirement of the victim-car, the penalty should be at least demotion to 11th place, and possibly disqualification. I believe wheels are now a single-source item in F1, and it looks like they may be a little too fragile. Verstappen and Norris bumped rear wheels and both immediately punctured, presumably due to their rims being broken. Surely single-sourcing means that there is no need to push the limits of strength/reliability/durability in the search for ultimate performance. Finally (sorry for going on a bit): Perez. His performances this year have frankly looked pretty pathetic. In one way I could sympathise with him. Apparently his deficit to Verstappen averages 0.3 sec, which in some years would have put him one or two places behind; a solid number two driver. But in 2024 everything is so tight that it relegates him to the lower reaches of the top ten. So sadly in 2024 Checo doesn't cut the mustard as a Formula 1 driver. |
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2 Jul 2024, 10:32 (Ref:4217571) | #60 | |
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I agree with Trapeze. There aren't many drivers whose standards have been so out there that they caused rule books to be rewritten. Vettel and Hamilton are not part of that group. Max is.
Norris was penalised for track limits - despite losing time and giving the place back. Max then received a similar penalty, but for making contact with another car in a delibrate fashion. Last race, drivers were given rather harsh penalties for things like jump starts where the car barely moved, whilst Stroll and Leclerc made deliberate contact with other cars during practice and received absolutely nothing. We now appear to have a consistent ruling from the stewards, where actions where deliberate contact is made is not treated as a major event compared to the events around it. |
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2 Jul 2024, 12:36 (Ref:4217583) | #61 | |
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The stewards don’t typically rule on track limits though, so you can’t really compare their decisions to those automatic penalties.
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2 Jul 2024, 21:35 (Ref:4217621) | #62 | |||
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Just because everything is so tight in 2024 that doesn't mean Perez doesn't cut the mustard as a F1 driver. Other drivers may be 3/10ths down on their teammates and you are not excluding them from being adequate F1 drivers. Stroll has outqualified Fernando several times this year or finished ahead, does that mean Fernando doesn't cut the mustard as a F1 driver? Of course not. The convergence of multiple makes of vehicle simply makes the contest far more interesting and competitive, but it is inaccurate to suggest that a driver no longer cuts the mustard on the basis of a result, especially when the team mentions issues like floor damage and broken bits with aerodynamic influence (because the whole issue of relative efficiency is built around aerodynamics). Perez has defeated Verstappen on occasions in the past. We don't know all the ins and outs of the data and circumstances surrounding each problem on the day, nor the issues in set up, but teams do know, and they offered him another contract. Obviously, they want him to support Verstappen more closely, as Horner has said, but that doesn't mean he 'doesn't cut the mustard' as a F1 driver. |
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2 Jul 2024, 22:06 (Ref:4217626) | #63 | ||
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We'll agree to disagree - although I think that Mark Webber might have some sympathy for my view on Vettel and of course Max & Nico would have some sympathy for my view on Hamilton. The champions do all definitely have a dark side but the depth of it can vary for sure.
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3 Jul 2024, 02:12 (Ref:4217640) | #64 | ||
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3 Jul 2024, 03:08 (Ref:4217643) | #65 | ||
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There have been champions such as Button or JYS who certainly didn't have an obvious dark side but who no doubt had deep reserves of determination, drive and self-belief. Jimmy Clark is probably the most stand out example of that kind of champion.
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3 Jul 2024, 16:22 (Ref:4217688) | #66 | |||
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I didn't mention other drivers, but now you raise the subject: Stroll: Most of the time I would be inclined to say he doesn't cut the mustard but every so often he pops in a good result. I don't think he would still be in F1 if his dad didn't own the team, but he does have occasional flashes of adequacy. Riciardo: He is way down on his performances when he was at Red Bull, but he does now seem to be recovering a little. I can't see him returning to Red Bull though. Sargent: I'm surprised he has lasted as long as he has at Williams and I would definitely put him in the "doesn't cut the mustard" category. Ironically, he did better in Austria than I recall him ever doing before. |
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4 Jul 2024, 01:17 (Ref:4217714) | #67 | |||
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Ricciardo is nothing like what he was at Red Bull and Renault. I think he thought he would handle Lando easily, but Lando had other plans. And since McLaren his race performances have been spasmodic. The lack of consistency is either organizing himself head wise. or just lacking something in inner drive. Maybe he's had it too easy or it came to him too easily and he just doesn't understand how he needs to apply himself. No one could ever argue Hamilton wasn't self-disciplined enough to apply himself to his craft, but Daniel is definitely lack something within his motivation. The late Reg Parnell once said that Chris Amon had brilliant speed, but it seemed to come to him too easily. People couldn't believe how unlucky someone with so much natural ability could be so unlucky, but Parnell felt Amon wasn't self-disciplined enough in organizing his personal life and his personal world. The result was that someone Clark and Stewart feared as a competitor never fulfilled his promise. I think Daniel is a bit like that. And Stroll? For me the decision is still floating. He does have some real ability, but it needs deeper commitment if he is ever going to be all that he could be. There is still time, but his ship won't wait forever. And in F1 time waits for no one. |
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4 Jul 2024, 07:38 (Ref:4217723) | #68 | |
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I have a slightly different view about Perez;I don't think he has lost ability,rather I believe the current Red Bull isn't easy to extract maximum performance from and while Max can apply all of his considerable ability to get the best from if,Checo doesn't have the same resource to draw on.In previous years the cars didn't need to be pushed so hard and they still led the pack.
I've never been entirely convinced by Danny Ric and believe the promise that he showed in his Red Bull days was in part due to the car suiting his driving style,certainly no car he has driven since has shown him to be outstanding. Sargent seems to be a latter day Scott Speed and I suspect he may go on to have a lengthy career in a different series. Stroll ought to have some kind of performance potential after so much preparation on the way up.Just think what a driver with natural ability could have achieved with that kind of racing education. |
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5 Jul 2024, 01:16 (Ref:4217829) | #69 | ||
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Here's a view about Max and Lando after Austria from a Max interview at Silverstone.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-ve...ls-softer-side Max is human, not a machine, after all? |
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5 Jul 2024, 07:36 (Ref:4217851) | #70 | ||
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