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20 Jun 2024, 18:53 (Ref:4216178) | #1101 | |
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20 Jun 2024, 19:01 (Ref:4216180) | #1102 | ||
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I tried to show the spread. Then you can see cars that were faster for a few laps and those that won over longer periods. It was quite nice and then when Racecar Engineering did the same I was very happy!
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20 Jun 2024, 19:09 (Ref:4216182) | #1103 | |
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20 Jun 2024, 19:17 (Ref:4216185) | #1104 | |
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The cutoff laptimes that I used for the dry laptimes in each sector are on the surface not obvious, but when looking at the laptime distribution in the histogram layout, it's obvious that this is where the bell curve ends for the dry laptimes and where the second "bell" begins for the wet laptimes.
As an example, for Toyota laptimes: In theory, I could rewatch the race, mark the lap numbers where the rain was, and then filter based on lap number but this would be incredibly tedious. I prefer the easy way out... |
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21 Jun 2024, 14:52 (Ref:4216293) | #1105 | ||
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Quote:
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21 Jun 2024, 15:31 (Ref:4216299) | #1106 | ||
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This was also apparent because they were struggling on outlaps and with low front tire temperatures all weekend. There's a lot to improve with that car for next year. In principle, this should be the best LMDh car on the grid, if you look how much the Acura has to be "slowed" in IMSA competition. |
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21 Jun 2024, 15:37 (Ref:4216302) | #1107 | |
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21 Jun 2024, 21:53 (Ref:4216343) | #1108 | |
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21 Jun 2024, 23:13 (Ref:4216349) | #1109 | |
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6 Jul 2024, 17:44 (Ref:4217997) | #1110 | |
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https://en.endurance-info.com/auto/a...-17-kg-ferrari
Once again they put BOP before everybody else. Judging by the title Ferrari is properly adjusted vs Le Mans. |
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6 Jul 2024, 17:45 (Ref:4217998) | #1111 | ||
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BoP. Brilliant or Pants.
Yeah. The bulletin hasn’t been released yet.
Have they kept the high speed power bump/drop? Could be important on the uphill straight. |
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6 Jul 2024, 18:19 (Ref:4218001) | #1112 | |
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Gotta wait for someone to publish the tables
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6 Jul 2024, 18:39 (Ref:4218003) | #1113 | ||
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Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps. |
8 Jul 2024, 10:15 (Ref:4218261) | #1114 | |
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https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...sao-paulo-bop/
That's a rather unexpected application of power gain there. Two cars that are quickest in the straight line get some rather generous adjustment (Toyota at 520 kW past 250 kph!). Surely this isn't Le Mans with lots of very long straights but makes you wonder where they get those values from |
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8 Jul 2024, 11:28 (Ref:4218268) | #1115 | ||
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Interesting. How does it look with the other adjustments?
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8 Jul 2024, 17:03 (Ref:4218303) | #1116 | |
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I was feeling a bit lazy, so came here hoping for your summary.
I only showed the values below 250km/h: I know there is the power gain above 250km/h but I think majority of the circuit is below 250km/h and in theory the power gain factor above 250km/h is only meant to balance top speed on the 2 straights, so all cars would be "equally performing" above 250km/h. My intuition says they did a good job with this based on the trends from Spa. Porsche was slowed a small amount. Ferrari was slowed more. BMW, Alpine, Lamborghini all gained a bit. Cadillac is taken back to Spa values. The curious one is Toyota. If Toyota is quick in Sao Paolo, it will prove that they sandbagged in the first part of the season for more favorable BOP at Le Mans. Otherwise, they'll be just as uncompetitive as the first 3 rounds. The potential spanner in the works with the adjustments is the bumps and curbs in Sao Paolo. Some cars can handle them better than others. It may lead to unanticipated outcomes. My own assessment is that Alpine and Porsche struggle with bumpy tracks (Sebring, Imola) relative to their rivals. BMW, Cadillac, and Ferrari tend to be strong on bumpy tracks. Last edited by Articus; 8 Jul 2024 at 17:14. |
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8 Jul 2024, 17:17 (Ref:4218305) | #1117 | ||
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I don’t know how that would prove that they purposely held back their performance, but I am constantly impressed with how people can prove things.
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8 Jul 2024, 19:33 (Ref:4218315) | #1118 | |
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I have not made any conclusions yet. They are just two logical deductions. Based on the parameters at the beginning of the year and how ACO had reverted Toyota to those figures for Sao Paolo, then the Toyota should not be competitive in Sao Paolo.
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8 Jul 2024, 19:37 (Ref:4218316) | #1119 | ||
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BoP. Brilliant or Pants.
Is it similar? I must look more. But there are quite a few tweaks.
Are the tracks and the conditions the same? Will then have the same tyre issues as Qatar on that surface and these weights? Have they got more of a handle on the car based on these changes and latest tyres? Is it outside normal variations from race to race that show up so easily in this tight field. I predict everyone else started to sandbag for next year? Or maybe Caddy have for the US race? |
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8 Jul 2024, 21:49 (Ref:4218327) | #1120 | ||
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Quote:
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8 Jul 2024, 21:50 (Ref:4218328) | #1121 | ||
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BoP. Brilliant or Pants.
Yes. Purposely obviously so. But only in the last bit.
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8 Jul 2024, 22:17 (Ref:4218329) | #1122 | ||
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In Qatar, Porsche was 14-15 "BOP points" ahead of Ferrari and Toyota. On the track, they were marginally ahead of Ferrari, and miles ahead of Toyota. In Imola, Porsche was 3 BOP points ahead of Ferrari and 5 BOP points ahead of Toyota. Ferrari was miles ahead of Porsche but Toyota was behind them. In Spa, Porsche was 7 BOP points ahead of Ferrari and 5 BOP points ahead of Toyota. Ferrari was ahead in qualifying and in the race until the red flag. Toyota was behind similar to Imola (although Porsche was a bit hobbled in Imola due to weakness of the 963 over the bumps so it's more obvious in Spa) It's an imperfect science that has uncertainty introduced by race to race self-performance variance and sandbagging, but my general conclusion was that Porsche should be between 10 and 12 BOP points ahead of Ferrari to balance the two on each circuit, and that they should only be around 3-4 BOP points ahead of Toyota to balance them. The Ferrari target for Sao Paolo is spot on. Porsche is roughly 13 BOP points ahead (so slightly better for Ferrari than Qatar where they were already only 2nd to Porsche in performance). The Toyota value doesn't look correct. Porsche is 10 BOP points ahead of Toyota. This is too much on the evidence of the first 3 races. On a normal circuit, Toyota has never been anywhere close to Porsche unless that margin was less than 5 BOP points so they should be even further behind than Spa and Imola. The 2 stage power gain system muddies the picture a little bit. Maybe that 520kw above 250km/h for Toyota will compensate for the 10 BOP points deficit below 250km/w, but my assumption was that it was only to balance top speed, not make them much faster. Toyota had only 513kw above 250km/h in Le Mans compared to 511 for Porsche but Toyota was already quicker on the straights at Le Mans. In Sao Poalo it will be 512kw for Porsche against 520kw for Toyota. An increasein delta from 2kw to 8kW in Toyota's favor. Toyota should have an even higher top speed difference to Porsche than they had at Le Mans. Hopefully they have nailed it in a way that I don't comprehend. Looking forward to a good race. Last edited by Articus; 8 Jul 2024 at 22:45. |
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8 Jul 2024, 23:19 (Ref:4218333) | #1123 | |
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I decided to also look at it from a different angle, comparing BOP from Le Mans and Sao Poalo which both feature the two stage system.
Specifically I wanted to compare Porsche and Toyota. The values shown are the difference between Toyota and Porsche at Le Mans and Sao Paolo. "Power 1" is below 250km/h and "Power 2" is above 250km/h. Toyota compared to Porsche at Le Mans: Weight: +11kg Power 1: -3kw Power 2: +2kw Toyota compared to Porsche At Sao Paolo: Weight: +9kg Power 1: -6kw Power 2: +8kw The weight difference between Porsche and Toyota is smaller than Le Mans. Only 9kg where it was 11 at Le Mans. Additionally, for the cost of 3kw below 250km/h, Toyota now has 8kw more above 250km/h compared to only +2kw more at that speed for Le Mans. On this evidence you would predict that Toyota will be ahead of Porsche again and by a larger margin than Le Mans. The weight difference is smaller and the power above 250km/h is even greater than Le Mans. This doesn't make sense to me. It also contradicts the previous post where I suggested that the Toyota needed to be within 3-4 BOP points of the Porsche to be competitive based on the first 3 rounds. Of course it contradicts because I never believed that Toyota was as slow as they showed in Qatar, Imola, and Spa and that is what the previous post reference was based on. The year on year BOP change shouldn't have produced such an uncompetitive Toyota. |
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8 Jul 2024, 23:32 (Ref:4218334) | #1124 | ||
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So some variation there.
My main objection to your assertion that it is proof is that it also requires the assumption that only Toyota was sandbagging! And that the ACO haven't noticed in the data that only they do it. Development of all these cars. The circuit and conditions. The weight and influence on tyres. P/W is not that good a comparison when you then get circuit variation. etc... etc... It's a hypothesis, not proof. There are other hypotheses that are just as good. Another way to look at all the variations: Last edited by Adam43; 8 Jul 2024 at 23:46. Reason: gram |
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8 Jul 2024, 23:40 (Ref:4218336) | #1125 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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And now just the numbers
Weight (Kg)
Max Power (kW)
Max Power >250km/h (kW)
And still we don't know what power they get at exactly 250km/h! It's outrageous that there is such uncertainty in the regulations Energy Allocation (MJ)
No change to Docking Time, or Front axle Power delivery speed (wet or dry). A couple of thoughts:
Last edited by Adam43; 8 Jul 2024 at 23:52. |
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