[WEC] BoP. Brilliant or Pants.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

My thing with the current BOP it seems to be penalising Toyota for building a very good car that is great on tyres. They almost always seem to get back to the front on the 2nd stint. Even in Fuji when not alright fastest they were climbing up the leader board on the 2nd stints. It seems to combat their tyre advantage they make the cars heavier and less power on a race by race basis. To me if you built a car that is great on tyres that should not be bopped against. It should be on the other manufacturers to do the same

However Toyota did not help themselves with penalties and crashes in the last race.

If Toyota are still able to get back to the front then that isn’t being BoP away from them.

Although it must be difficult for the organizers to separate the two.

However they seem to be doing OK, and getting better?, when it comes to a car designed and engineered to be fast in the race and not care about qualifying.

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Penalties, contacts, crashes are all about Human Factor all mainly about drivers and sometimes pit wall.This wont ever be BoP'ed.

if they did correct for that it is actually mean success ballast! Whereas honing the BoP every race is not.

[TF110]

What we see though, is bop handed out to cars based on their performance from the previous race. So if a team gets a break for Bahrain, that means their bop for Fuji wasn't right? When does it become steady and the bop is correct? That's another anomaly in this process.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by TF110

What we see though, is bop handed out to cars based on their performance from the previous race.

It’s not just on the previous race, it is previous races and after the each race the data grows.

I dare say recent results are more important than old ones. Toyotas performance 2021 Sebring probably doesn’t influence as much as 2024

So if a team gets a break for Bahrain, that means their bop for Fuji wasn't right? When does it become steady and the bop is correct? That's another anomaly in this process.

That not an anomaly. It is just it works! Or indeed how analysis and research works.

It may never be perfectly steady we only get to consider after each race. We only have a handful of races a year.

It may tend to steady and adjustments are less. We are potentially are seeing already amongst established cars of the same type.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by TF110

What we see though, is bop handed out to cars based on their performance from the previous race. So if a team gets a break for Bahrain, that means their bop for Fuji wasn't right? When does it become steady and the bop is correct? That's another anomaly in this process.

This is a false interpretation and it's part of why there are voices suggesting that BOP should not be public.

The BOP takes into account track characteristic and the anticipated performance of the various cars based on the homologation aero figures. It's not supposed to be steady. Teams have a homologated car. Changes cannot be made to suit every track.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Articus

This is a false interpretation and it's part of why there are voices suggesting that BOP should not be public.

The BOP takes into account track characteristic and the anticipated performance of the various cars based on the homologation aero figures. It's not supposed to be steady. Teams have a homologated car. Changes cannot be made to suit every track.

Are we talking about the cars or the BoP?

[TF110]

I can see them making track specific bop, but only for Le Mans. But if the cars are all in a designated l/d ratio and minimum frontal area like the rules stipulate, there should only be 2 bop's. This reminds me of specifying wing angles and gurney sizes, but I don't wanna give them any ideas

[flatlandsman]

You cannot truly out engineer good engineering and for me some cars out there have been very well put together, others shine in certain parts of races. Yo0u can limit the advantage with BoP to some degree but eventually a good car will always just be that.

The way it looks to me is that Toyota have the best car, Porsche did enough work to make sure their car has been consistent, Ferrari have a great car at LM but are plagued with issues elsewhere despite still being quick, the private Porsches recently have been pushed back a bit, the Caddy is up and down, hampered by one car only and for me two drivers and one driver who is at his limit and shows it, the Alpine is a very good car probably as good as Toyota but again new so hard to tell and the Lambo is a good base car with no budget!!

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Matador

Are we talking about the cars or the BoP?

The cars.

[Matador]

[Articus]

Will they dare to announce the BOP?

[tomcug]

It's confidential so we have nothing to talk about

[Matador]

Originally Posted by tomcug

It's confidential so we have nothing to talk about

Almost seems so at this point. It's never been out so late has it?

[Gerard C]

We can especially wonder since when the teams have been aware of the different BoP numbers. And journalists too. Slowly and surely the law of silence sets in. Heavy hands, huh?

[Articus]

Originally Posted by tomcug

It's confidential so we have nothing to talk about

Well played

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Matador

Almost seems so at this point. It's never been out so late has it?

Last time. Bulletin was 10th September for race on 15th. First press a couple of days before.

Are we now reading things into when it comes out? What does it all mean!? They really ought to keep it to themselves if we are at this point.

Nothing to see here. Literally and also with the meaning of the date.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Last time. Bulletin was 10th September for race on 15th. First press a couple of days before.

Are we now reading things into when it comes out? What does it all mean!? They really ought to keep it to themselves if we are at this point.

Nothing to see here. Literally and also with the meaning of the date.

Hey, my mole made a giant mountain out of it so I demand we respect Molehill Mountain

[TF110]

motorsport.com has a write up on the changes.

[Articus]

It’s out. 1053kg Ferrari. 1056 kg Porsche, 1065 kg Toyota.

[Gerard C]

Toyota to win the championship? Peugeot has wings now!

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by TF110

motorsport.com has a write up on the changes.

Motorsport.com still has an Endurance-info subscription

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Toyota to win the championship? Peugeot has wings now!

With this BOP it's very possible they will. But I wouldn't count on BOP wings to take Peugeot to the podium or something like that

[Gerard C]

If BoP is also meant to please everybody, may be it will be a full success. Ferrari Le Mans winner, Porsche IMSA winner, Toyota WEC winner, Peugeot winning the last race of the year, many kudos to Alpine and Lamborghini. Soap opera.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by tomcug

Motorsport.com still has an Endurance-info subscription

[Articus]

My early prediction is that amongst the 3 manufacturers competing for the manufacturers championship, Toyota will be the quickest. There is only a 9kg difference between them and the Porsche. Porsche has never been competitive against the Toyota at such a small weight difference.

ferrari 510kw 1053kg
porsche 514kw 1056kg

Porsche will not challenge Ferrari like this.

Toyota > Ferrari > Porsche . Alpine and Peugeot will play spoilers.

Porsche driver's title, Toyota manufacturers title, Ferrari Le Mans, everybody happy

[tomcug]

With fuel load I wouldn't be surprised if the 963 is actually the heaviest of the 3.

Originally Posted by Articus

Porsche will not challenge Ferrari like this.

Toyota > Ferrari > Porsche

I agree but we'll see.

[TF110]

I think Ferrari, Porsche and Toyota will be close, but I also think Cadillac and Alpine will be there too. Toyota loses 5kg yet gains 6kw. Ferrari loses even less at -2kg but gains 10kw. The power gain above 250kph is lower but Bahrain isn't the fastest track and Ferrari has never hurt for speed.