FIA App K regulations - 01-01-2012

[MGDavid]

I take it you meant Applicable 1.1.2021

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by Duddha

2021 FIA Appendix K - Published on 18.12.2020 - Applicable 01.01.2020

clamping down on damping

great news



RudE

[Gerard C]

Rudolf if you have some spare coins, you could consider investing in the camshaft business…*

[Duddha]

LATEST UPDATES TO APPENDIX K
Following the last World Motor Sport Council meetings, an updated version of Appendix K has been published and will be applicable from 1st of January 2022 with the following amendment being adopted:

HOMOLOGATED CARS – Appendix K – Article 7.3.3
Following the work achieved by the Historic Technical Working Group through the FIA archives, a list of corrected minimum weights for specific homologated cars reflecting the publication of FIA Bulletin n°43 of January 1, 1971, and applicable from Period G2 will come into effect.

TYRES – Appendix K – Article 8
As per our previous newsletter, the updated version of Article 8 for tyres is now incorporated and will be applicable from 1st of January 2022. However, the homologation procedure remains ongoing and further details will follow during the first trimester of 2022, ready for the start of the season.
As detailed in the regulations, the Historic Technical Tyre List will provide all the acceptable products for the Vintage (FIA Period C to E included) and Historic (FIA Period F) range.

CONDITION TESTING – Appendix III
Further work achieved by the Historic Technical Working Group to bring Appendix III up to speed with the current specific standards and requirements for condition testing for suspension components. Housekeeping which we hope will help the community.

SPECIFICS – Appendix VII – PORSCHE 901/911
Addition of a clarification for the use of timing chain tensioners on the Porsche 911 engines from 1964 onwards.

TECHNICAL REGULATIONS FOR FORMULA JUNIOR CARS – Appendix XIII – Article 4.4
As detailed since its publication at the end of 2019 and with a two-year notice, adjustable spring platforms will not be acceptable for Period E Formula Junior cars. This is applicable to current Historic Technical Passports and any new application and/or renewals.

The regulations are available - here

[Brian A]

Originally Posted by Duddha

TYRES – Appendix K – Article 8
...... However, the homologation procedure remains ongoing and further details will follow during the first trimester of 2022, ready for the start of the season.
As detailed in the regulations, the Historic Technical Tyre List will provide all the acceptable products for the Vintage (FIA Period C to E included) and Historic (FIA Period F) range.

Any indication of when and where will we be able to see a revised tyre list?

[Duddha]

Originally Posted by Brian A

Any indication of when and where will we be able to see a revised tyre list?

The tyre list will be published on the FIA Website before the start of the season and information will be sent to promoters and clubs.

[Duddha]

2023 FIA Appendix K available here.

[Brian A]

I can see that there is now the option of an alternative to Dunlop Historic tyres with the addition of the Continental/Hoosier tyre. However, so far I've not managed to find any way of acquiring such tyres.

Anyone any ideas?

[one-two]

Originally Posted by Duddha

2023 FIA Appendix K available here.

Thank you for keeping this site updated Louis. Best wishes, Robert

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Brian A

I can see that there is now the option of an alternative to Dunlop Historic tyres with the addition of the Continental/Hoosier tyre. However, so far I've not managed to find any way of acquiring such tyres.

Anyone any ideas?

Ditto.

[Duddha]

Continental-Hoosier and the Continental Renner Racing are at the moment available through their main distributor and warehouse - https://reifenschlag.de/

The full network of distributors in each country is in the build-up.

[Brian A]

Originally Posted by Duddha

Continental-Hoosier and the Continental Renner Racing are at the moment available through their main distributor and warehouse - https://reifenschlag.de/

The full network of distributors in each country is in the build-up.

Thanks Duddha for the information and link.

Comparing the prices quoted in Germany against the equivalent sized Dunlop Historics (albeit from the UK price list) appears to indicate a 40% premium for the new tyre. Unless someone can demonstrate a significant advantage over the Dunlops (i.e. in the quality) I think they may struggle.

[Duddha]

Latest version of Appendix K available here.

[Duddha]

2025 Appendix K is available here.

Today’s World Council meeting saw the approval of a rare and significant update to the regulations governing the eligibility of historic cars to take part in motor sport competitions.

These changes to Appendix K of the International Sporting Code mean that, from 2025, racing cars built between the years 1991 and 2000 will be able to carry the Historic Technical Passports that allow them to compete in FIA championships and international motor sport events.

This update will bring many of the world’s most iconic race and rally cars back into the crucible of motor sport, allowing fans and enthusiasts to enjoy the sights and sounds of what was a remarkable decade of technological advancement.

In circuit racing, legendary Formula 1 racers from the spectacular turbo era, which previously were only approved for demonstration, are now moving to the race categorisation, together with F1 cars from the period 1987-2000.

The Formula 1 3.5 litre machines that followed the ban of turbo engines will be returning to competition, as well as the much-loved Formula 3000 category. In sportscar racing, this new period of eligibility means that historic events will now reflect the rise of the iconic Le Mans Prototypes and GT with cars like the Mercedes-Benz CLK GTR, Porsche 911 GT1, McLaren F1 GTR, or Ferrari F40 LM, Jaguar XJ220, and Chrysler Viper.

For touring car fans, the Super Touring period now falls into eligibility as well, bringing fan-favourites from the likes of Audi, Opel, Renault, Alfa Romeo and Volvo back to do battle once again.

The change for historic rally sees a wide range of new cars become eligible, including some of the most iconic categories in recent memory.

The classic Group A period of the mid 90's included cars like the Group A Subaru Impreza, synonymous with the late Colin McRae. The Mitsubishi Lancer and Ford Escort Cosworth were also hugely successful in this era, together with cars from Toyota and Lancia.

As the 90's decade came to an end, the World Rally Car format was introduced in 1997. These turbo 4WD cars were at the cutting edge of transmission technology, braking and performance. The Toyota Corolla WRC, Subaru Impreza WRC, Ford Focus WRC and the Peugeot 206 WRC remain some of the most popular and alluring rally cars to this day.

The move to year 2000 opens up an unprecedented variety of new rally cars from the humble Nissan Micra through to the iconic legendary cars of the sport above.

The FIA will make further announcements and conduct workshops in early 2025 to help the owners of the newly-eligible historic cars apply for their Historic Technical Passports and get the cars racing again.

[ArnageWRC]

The historic rallying community in the UK will be appalled that these 'modern' cars are now classed as Historic. Toys will be thrown out the pram if the Escort Mk II can't win events.

[Peter Mallett]

Rather like circuit racing, I'm sure they will run in apprpriate classes.

BTW, thanks for the update Louis.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Rather like circuit racing, I'm sure they will run in apprpriate classes.

BTW, thanks for the update Louis.

The rally “traditionalists” are already up in arms at the prospect; in the U.K., anyway, and they seem to think that historics stopped in 1981.

The big differences with rallying in the U.K. compared to racing is that:
a) There is a single “British Historic Rally Championship” rather than lots of period championships for Pre 63, Pre 66, etc etc
b) The rally community seem to put a lot of store by winning outright, rather than class wins
c) The rally community have never embraced separate championships for Group 1, Group 2, Group 4; see a)
d) Rallyists in the U.K. are extraordinarily conservative and don’t like change, and think that anything without a live rear axle or not designed by Alex Issigionis is far too new fangled to be considered “historic”
e) There is a very large industry built ups around the Escort and they don’t want to see that threatened.
f) It’s OK to be different as long as you are wealthy enough to run a Stratos, TR7V8 or Porsche 911RS because they are not too many of those around, they are interesting, and likely to break so won’t threaten the Escort!!!
g) The Escort mafia think it’s fine that when they became “historic”, the previous categories for mini, Lotus Cortina, Healey 3000s etc were outclassed, but can’t countenance the same thing happening to them, even though that’s what happens, “back in the day”.
h) I could go on, but probably better not!

Even as an Escort owner (albeit not an Appx K eg) I am keen to see the 4wd, F2 etc etc era celebrated. Personally I think the answer is to concentrate on class wins and not overall wins, and to have separate events and championships for pre and post 1990…..but see a) to g) above!!!

I suspect that the situation in Europe may be different and I look,forward to seeing You Tube footage of hordes of Renault Megane Maxis, Clio Williams, and Peugeot 306’s doing battle with Subarus, Mitsubishis, Integrales and Escort Cosworths etc.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by andy97

The rally “traditionalists” are already up in arms at the prospect; in the U.K., anyway, and they seem to think that historics stopped in 1981.

The big differences with rallying in the U.K. compared to racing is that:
a) There is a single “British Historic Rally Championship” rather than lots of period championships for Pre 63, Pre 66, etc etc
b) The rally community seem to put a lot of store by winning outright, rather than class wins
c) The rally community have never embraced separate championships for Group 1, Group 2, Group 4; see a)
d) Rallyists in the U.K. are extraordinarily conservative and don’t like change, and think that anything without a live rear axle or not designed by Alex Issigionis is far too new fangled to be considered “historic”
e) There is a very large industry built ups around the Escort and they don’t want to see that threatened.
f) It’s OK to be different as long as you are wealthy enough to run a Stratos, TR7V8 or Porsche 911RS because they are not too many of those around, they are interesting, and likely to break so won’t threaten the Escort!!!
g) The Escort mafia think it’s fine that when they became “historic”, the previous categories for mini, Lotus Cortina, Healey 3000s etc were outclassed, but can’t countenance the same thing happening to them, even though that’s what happens, “back in the day”.
h) I could go on, but probably better not!

Even as an Escort owner (albeit not an Appx K eg) I am keen to see the 4wd, F2 etc etc era celebrated. Personally I think the answer is to concentrate on class wins and not overall wins, and to have separate events and championships for pre and post 1990…..but see a) to g) above!!!

I suspect that the situation in Europe may be different and I look,forward to seeing You Tube footage of hordes of Renault Megane Maxis, Clio Williams, and Peugeot 306’s doing battle with Subarus, Mitsubishis, Integrales and Escort Cosworths etc.

No offence taken

I think part of the problem is that if you have classes for each period, you then have the various engine capacity classes within that and then you end up with loads of classes with few cars in each.

Having said that, I'm very much in favour of adding "more modern" cars to historic rallying - it'll be interesting to see how many do come out to play. Allowing them is one thing - but running them is another entirely! Parts availability and cost being the obvious hurdles. That's partly why Escorts are so widespread - you can get all the bits for them off the shelf. As much as I'd love to see a full entry of F2, S1600, Group A and WR Cars realistically I can't see them being anything other than a very small part of the scene (albeit a very impressive one - certainly worth making a trip to the woods for). There were some Group A cars out on the RAC last year and they were very well received I thought?

The same applies to everything else that's now "historic" in that list of course - none of them are cheap to run. Super Touring, GT1, F3000, F1 3.5 litre - all great to see in action, but how many will actually compete? As mentioned there's a whole industry that's built up around supplying parts for Escorts - how likely is it that similar will be available for the more modern machinery? Less likely I'd have thought - simply as they're more complex. Will anyone realistically build some of these from scratch? Seems unlikely I'd have thought - it can be done easily for Escorts and Minis (taking the two seemingly most frowned upon examples) but a Nissan Primera to 1999 Super Touring spec?

So whilst it's good to allow them to compete, realistically I don't think that many actually will. I hope we do see some though - there's some great cars in that list

[andy97]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

No offence taken

I think part of the problem is that if you have classes for each period, you then have the various engine capacity classes within that and then you end up with loads of classes with few cars in each.

Having said that, I'm very much in favour of adding "more modern" cars to historic rallying - it'll be interesting to see how many do come out to play. Allowing them is one thing - but running them is another entirely! Parts availability and cost being the obvious hurdles. That's partly why Escorts are so widespread - you can get all the bits for them off the shelf. As much as I'd love to see a full entry of F2, S1600, Group A and WR Cars realistically I can't see them being anything other than a very small part of the scene (albeit a very impressive one - certainly worth making a trip to the woods for). There were some Group A cars out on the RAC last year and they were very well received I thought?

The same applies to everything else that's now "historic" in that list of course - none of them are cheap to run. Super Touring, GT1, F3000, F1 3.5 litre - all great to see in action, but how many will actually compete? As mentioned there's a whole industry that's built up around supplying parts for Escorts - how likely is it that similar will be available for the more modern machinery? Less likely I'd have thought - simply as they're more complex. Will anyone realistically build some of these from scratch? Seems unlikely I'd have thought - it can be done easily for Escorts and Minis (taking the two seemingly most frowned upon examples) but a Nissan Primera to 1999 Super Touring spec?

So whilst it's good to allow them to compete, realistically I don't think that many actually will. I hope we do see some though - there's some great cars in that list

Bert, don’t get me wrong, I love my Escort and I don’t want to see them disappear at all; in fact I think Escorts should all be in “historics” (or a non homologated “classic” club level equivalent) and not be in “modern spec”.
The new rules are a big opportunity to re-set historic rallying, so that cars from all eras are encouraged, but there has to be a willingness and a mindset to do so. Currently there isn’t and I suppose my main point (and the reason for my sarcasm) is that people need to stop being so parochial and start being a bit more open minded, and encouraging of other eras, for the good of the future of the sport as a whole, and even the future of “historic rallying”.
Let’s face it, you probably have to be in your late 50s to have seen Roger Clark and Co back in the day (I am 61) but people in their 30s and 40s want to celebrate McCrae & Burns and the cars they drove. If the sport is to survive, then they need to be given that chance or they will drift away.
As I said, we should encourage putting greater importance on class wins instead of overall wins, and maybe we need to encourage events for Cat 1, 2 & 3 cars together and separate events for the Cat 4 and new Cat 5 cars.
None of that means that we have to have a myriad of classes, but even if we do, so what? Just publish class result, combine classes if necessary and don’t bother spending money on plastic pots.
You are right about parts being a problem for some cars and what I don’t know is whether there are similar “parts supply industries” for different cars in different countries. We love our Escorts in the U.K. and an industry has developed around them, but does Italy have a similar industry for Fiats or Alfas; does Germany have an industry supporting BMWs and VWs and does France have an industry supporting Renaults, Citroens and Peugeots, particularly of the 1990s era? Remember, that F2 was very popular on the continent so maybe there is parts support there?
As for the other “new historic” categories, I can see a “historic F3000” as the most likely to take off as there is a lot of them about and they are relatively straightforward compared to F1 or Le Mans cars of the same era.

[Duddha]

A lot of the cars brought into the 2025 cut-off moving to 2000 are high technology cars and while it may change the order, let's not forget that the industry needs to get to the point of having them race worthy. It's a big move but few F1 engines from that era are around, save the Ford or the few cars running in demonstration and that's a step. As much as it will be down the line and for rallies. Group A cars will be the most straightforward and Group N as well, but Maxi or WRC will take a little time, also for the fact that under these rules, they must be period correct and a lot of the above are as we speak running drivetrain components which are contemporary to the period.

Such a change will take time to materialize I believe, industry is key and look at how long it took for some of the more modern cars to be run correctly in the existing historic scene. BOSS is one of the best example, more cost effective to go GP2 than to stick to the 3.5, Turbo or more modern cars to form a grid.

F3000 will be interesting but it takes time to get there, especially given that most of them were altered in hill climb around Europe, and, and, and.

We will see in 3-4 years from January 2025...

[Gerard C]

I feel the link below easier to open at least on Mac OS: https://historicdb.fia.com/sites/def..._v20241114.pdf