Yellow Flag between sessions

[Flagman]

On Saturday at Oulton Park the IO and Observer on my post were complaining that we where not showing a yellow flag between sessions to 'protect the marshals who where sweeping the track'

This led to a fairly full and frank discussion'.

The IO claimed that this was in the 'briefing instructions' and was now required policy at all BRSCC meetings at Oulton Park as the marshals were in danger from the course cars.

My position on this is that it is a complete load of ******** - on the following grounds

1 - If the course cars are going round the circuit at such a speed that they are a danger to marshals on the circuit, then sack the drivers of the course cars.

2 - If the drivers of the course cars cannot see somebody in orange in the middle of the track then they are not going to see a yellow flag being displayed as well.

3 - The gap between sessions is the only chance the flag marshal has to get a drink, eat some food, go to the loo etc.

4 - Us flag marshals of 'advancing years' need a chance to sit down between sessions - especially 30 minute races with 4 starters as the excitement gets too much..

5 - If the club really cannot sort out points 1 & 2 and feel the need for some form of warning - then why not install a flashing light on each observers post to act as a warning and let the flag marshals have a rest between sessions.

Anyone got any views on this or am I in a minority (of two - my fellow flag marshal felt the same way).

[Bob Pearson]

Flagman, your absolutely right on all counts. It's almost a relief to know that the BRSCC don't confine their stupid ideas to the competitors and let you guys have the benefit of a few as well.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Flagman
On Saturday at Oulton Park the IO and Observer on my post were complaining that we where not showing a yellow flag between sessions to 'protect the marshals who where sweeping the track'

This led to a fairly full and frank discussion'.

The IO claimed that this was in the 'briefing instructions' and was now required policy at all BRSCC meetings at Oulton Park as the marshals were in danger from the course cars.

My position on this is that it is a complete load of ******** - on the following grounds

1 - If the course cars are going round the circuit at such a speed that they are a danger to marshals on the circuit, then sack the drivers of the course cars.

2 - If the drivers of the course cars cannot see somebody in orange in the middle of the track then they are not going to see a yellow flag being displayed as well.

3 - The gap between sessions is the only chance the flag marshal has to get a drink, eat some food, go to the loo etc.

4 - Us flag marshals of 'advancing years' need a chance to sit down between sessions - especially 30 minute races with 4 starters as the excitement gets too much..

5 - If the club really cannot sort out points 1 & 2 and feel the need for some form of warning - then why not install a flashing light on each observers post to act as a warning and let the flag marshals have a rest between sessions.

Anyone got any views on this or am I in a minority (of two - my fellow flag marshal felt the same way).

The rules for running race meetings should above all be consistent. I have absolutely no qualms about the use of YELLOW to cover on track marshals (including poor Evil Pumpkins grid marshals).

I understand your gripe but do not agree with it. Ask yourself how you would feel if someone was clouted without something being provided as a warning......

[Chigley]

I agree with you Flagman, between sessions is the only break we get, especially as we and the observers are the part of the team that have to concentrate 100% on the race/session, rather than reacting to incidents, if you get my drift.
However, I also agree that a yellow flag is advantageous when people (incident/breakdown) are working on track where visibility is restricted, like blind corners, or a difficult recovery which means the awareness is not focused on track side traffic.
For general track inspections or sweeping let the flaggie have a break.

[Chigley]

Ask yourself how you would feel if someone was clouted without something being provided as a warning......

As is being discussed in the thread about I/O's isn't that what an I/O (actual or appointed) is supposed to do?? look out for the safety of his/her team.

[Flagman]

I have always maintained that the yellow flag is not a substitute for superman - it only offers protection if drivers take any notice of it - the drivers of the course cars should know that there are likly to be marshals on the circuit, and drive accordingly - if they want to be racing drivers then enter a race.

[EvilPumpkin]

This seems simple to me - if marshals are working on the track, then there shouldn't be any traffic. End of discussion. If it's a situation where course cars really feel that they have to go around and are unable to manage to do so in a sensible fashion then clean up waits until they're done. If that means the meeting is running late, then they'll be more careful next time.

This has to be one of the most bizarre things I've heard!

[brickkicker]

3 - The gap between sessions is the only chance the flag marshal has to get a drink, eat some food, go to the loo etc.

Nice that you get a break if were on the track when do we get chance?

[ascarracinguk]

steve your always thinking about food arent you....




well its better than thinking about vodka and custard creams

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally posted by brickkicker
Nice that you get a break if were on the track when do we get chance?

Guess it depends how many are on post - and whether it's necessary to work the track between every single session. Unless it's something nightmare serious - in which case I doubt the flagger would leave the post until it was cleared - then one course marshal could eat sarnie/go to loo/other things whilst the other (or the IO) dealt with the clean up.

I know in the UK, you run 2 flaggers per post - we don't - so I personally don't begrudge anyone on flags the chance to nip off to the loo between sessions or maybe gulp down a sandwich.

[brickkicker]

Im not saying that I agree with it, but if its in the final regs we should at least follow it. There are always the cars that have been off and pushed back on at the end of the session making there way to the pits and they dont know that marshals will be wondering around the track.

Oh and ascar it wasnt custard creams they were chocy eclairs will have to get some more for the ferrari festival

[brickkicker]

I know in the UK, you run 2 flaggers per post

At some meetings your lucky if you have 2 in total per post.

[ascarracinguk]

even if they are asleep

[wickedwitch]

Don't forget that if marshals are working at one section of track to perhaps free a car from gravel etc, then the same could be happening at another part of track, were driver, angry not to have finished race, jumps back in car to head for paddock but is still angry and drives like a bloomin' maniac.

We know that this should not happen, just as we know that unheralded course cars driven dangerously between sessions should not happen and race cars that don't return to paddock and escape for another lap or two definitely should not happen - but things that shouldn't happen, often do actually happen in the real world. Sometimes not everybody at a race meeting is as thoughtful of consequence and and considerate of rules as we marshals are.

In anticipation of such situations though, I don't feel that it's absolutely necessary for the flag marshal to continually dispay yellow but the flag marshal should definitely be on "look-out" and have yellow flag and loud whistle on stand-by.

[brickkicker]

And dont forget the course car crashed at silverstone if they should be collecting obs reports how can this happen???

[ascarracinguk]

it crashed at long beach too....women drivers... it was a brand new mustang cobra!!!!

[Chigley]

This seems simple to me - if marshals are working on the track, then there shouldn't be any traffic. End of discussion.

The trouble is EP we are in the entertainment business and Joe Public want to see cars racing not marshals sweeping or course cars circulating.
In the interests of efficiency and trying to keep to a timetable track workers and course/incident vehicles have got to mingle and get what needs to be done in the shortest time possible, but safely.
Its a none starter to have a vehicle free track whilst cleanups etc are going on.

[Dave Brand]

I'm quite happy to work on track between sessions without a yellow flag; however, if this rule is to be enforced, I see it as an opportunity to perform a service for certain overweight flaggies - by staying out on track between sessions, we can stop her (oops, who mentioned KayBee?) eating & drinking so much!

[JimW]

I'm with Flagman on this one. I saw the instruction about yellow flags in my briefing sheet and decided to ignore it entirely. (Particularly as it clashed with the standing instructions about how course cars are supposed to behave )

Of course we all need to keep an eye out for cars returning to the pits after they have been dragged out of gravel etc.

Equally when driving a rescue unit or course car between sessions I always have this impulse to run over anyone waving a yellow flag at me. (A bit like I have this impulse to accelerate and crash into any car displaying a "Baby on Board" sticker!) Both impulses so far controlled.

Regards

Jim

[TwoSheds]

Originally posted by wickedwitch
In anticipation of such situations though, I don't feel that it's absolutely necessary for the flag marshal to continually dispay yellow but the flag marshal should definitely be on "look-out" and have yellow flag and loud whistle on stand-by.

Quite agree. Depending on what bit of a circuit I'm at and whether the course car(s) have already been around I always try to watch and cover the course guys and girls while they work.

The IO should also be doing this of course (if there is one!).

[Novice]

Does a course car really need to do 2 or 3 laps between sessions though? We expect it to come round once to pick up reports, so it should not be a danger to anyone in orange as you would assume they know where all the posts are.

[brickkicker]

Well after being at Donington on Sunday I was going to bring this up. They didnt have to send a course car a fire car and a few rescue units around after every session, they just got on with the racing. If there was an incident at redgate and the course car had to do collect paper work he went to redgate and drove W/D back to the pit lane so they didnt waste time going all the way round.
And when they got behind time they had the next race going out the pit lane before the last lot had come in on there slowing down lap. It all seemed to work very well.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by Flagman
...this was in the 'briefing instructions...If the course cars are going round the circuit at such a speed that they are a danger to marshals on the circuit, then sack the drivers of the course cars.

The notes WERE issued to the Observers!
At the MGCC meeting at Oulton I made a verbal report to race control at the request of the marshals in my team, to express our concerns at the excessive and totally uneccessary speed at which the Chief Observer was travelling around the circuit!
Granted, the CO had been give a fancy competition car to play with, but that in NO WAY is any excuse for him to go mental!
The response from RC was that we were running behind time! I reiterated my concerns and was told that "Other callers were waiting".
I later asked if I could see the race log to see whether the entry had been made - but I was told this was not possible.
Competing cars are the ones we should be wary of but just lately, the course cars pose a potentially more lethal threat.
I agree with Flagman - Sack the

[Flagman]

Funny that my observer never said anything in his briefing - nor did the IO - who also happens to do the chief observer's job at sign on!

If they had mentioned it I would have protested at the time.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by Flagman
Funny that my observer never said anything in his briefing -

Now I DID mention at my briefing, but rejected it as being contradictory to the stuff written elsewhere in the observers notes regarding course cars.
I believe it says in block capitals THESE CARS WILL BE TRAVELLING AT GREATLY REDUCED SPEED