Gt1

[Edmonton]

Would you like to see the FIA and the ACO bring back the GT1 class?

[JAG]

We have GT1, its called GTS. If you want Toyota Gt-ONE type cars look at LMGTP.

To make GTS relatively competitive with the protoypes you just need to decrease weight from 1100KG to 900KG or 1000KG and give a bit more aerodynamic freedom with LMP1 spec wings/splitters etc. Wouldn't be that expemnsive either.

[Aysedasi]

I agree with Jag. I'd love to see more GTP's.

[rdjones]

I am with that, it would be nice to see the Toyota up againest the Bentley

[JAG]

Well the new Audi and rumoured Mazda, Nissan, Porsche, Sard Toyota, Seat (Spanish at least) prototypes are all expected to be LMGTPs due to the 2004 regs bringing LMP900 and LMGTP into line with each other.

The asthetics of a coupe appeal to both fans AND manufcatuers. Just look at the years manufactuers spent persuvearing with less competititve GT1s against LMP900s.

[Edmonton]

I liked the class a lot before cars like the Toyota came in. When it was stuff like the Mclarens and even the Porsche it made for a great class to watch-both of these cars acctually were in production.

[Chevyguy]

The Porsche wasn't exactly "in production" but you could buy either of those cars street legal for a cool million. The GT1 class was outstanding in theory, until the Porsche and the Toyota came along. According to rules, the cars were supposed to have a certain amount of trunk space, and that's exactly where Toyota put the gas tank. I don't know what they are, but many were mouthing off at Porsche for using other such loop holes. With GTP, you have cars that are built up as prototypes, and not streetcars (HA!), so you have the same type of car and it only has to comply with racing type standards.

BTW, i do love the Porsche and Toyota, and all the other GT1 cars. I found the idea of them being true roadcars fascinating, and almost all of them were drop dead gorgeus, especially the Mercedes and Porsches. I think the Mclarens was only car that truly deserved to be in the class, because it was a production car first. The grey areas in the rules just made the class way too unstable...and sometimes airborne.

[JAG]

The Masarati and new Lola GTS cars will be GT1 cars in all but name. The difference is they cannot compete for overall wins (even on fuel consumption) with the LMPs.

Reduce there weight a little, maybe wider tires and bigger wings and they could compete for overall wins if the conditions are favourable and their is a high retirement rate.

Plus 25 cars have to be produced, 100 for large manufactuers (if the ACO get there way) so there will be lots of customer cars around unlike GT1. How many privateer CLK-GTRs or 911 GT198 w herethere. 2 at most.

[Edmonton]

What the class needed was a geater amount of street cars to be built in order to be legal for competition. A do believe that Porsche built 32 gt1 street cars between 96 and 97. The class perhaps should have had a price cap of maybe $750000 instead of 1million. I think they need to split the pure supercars from the cars like the vettes,vpers,and the maranello.

[Garrett]

To me, GT1 was a clas more for street "supercars" such as the Mclaren F1 GTR, Porsche GT1 (96 and 97 model), Lotus Elise GT1, and etc. It was a class that did produce some beautiful cars though. But, to the likes of me, I would like to see moe of the extreme GTP cars as the Bentley EXP Speed 8, Toyota "GT1", Porsche 1998 "GT1", Mercedes 1999 CLR, and Audi R8C. It like out right prtotype speed, but don't get me wrong, the GT1s were fast too.

Jag, you said it was rumored that Audi, Mazda, Porsche, Sard Toyota?, Nissan, and Seat? are supposed to be at Le Mans within 2004 or 2005. Where did you hear such a rumor as this?

[JAG]

First of all there are many rumours, you just have to take them with a pinch of salt.

But Audi are making a LMGTP, while Mazda built a LMP for 2003 that was vetoed by Ford ue to the 2004 regs. Prodrive are said to be working/have been working with Mazda on a new LMP for the new regs.

Sard are working on a LMP, either open or closed for 2004 but more likely 2005. They are trying to get support from Toyota. Nissan said they would return once there financial trouble had been brought under control and they are now evaluationg a return to international motorsport with LM the favoured arena. The Spanish LMGTP is being designed by a Spanish Formula Nissan team on behalf of a manufactuer (presumably Seat). This project will only go ahead if they geet the sponsorship/funding required.

Lola are also producing a LMP and GTS for an unknown manufactuer. The LMP900 or LMGTP will have styling features carried over from the GTS car.

[Edmonton]

Originally posted by JAG
First of all there are many rumours, you just have to take them with a pinch of salt.

But Audi are making a LMGTP, while Mazda built a LMP for 2003 that was vetoed by Ford ue to the 2004 regs. Prodrive are said to be working/have been working with Mazda on a new LMP for the new regs.

Sard are working on a LMP, either open or closed for 2004 but more likely 2005. They are trying to get support from Toyota. Nissan said they would return once there financial trouble had been brought under control and they are now evaluationg a return to international motorsport with LM the favoured arena. The Spanish LMGTP is being designed by a Spanish Formula Nissan team on behalf of a manufactuer (presumably Seat). This project will only go ahead if they geet the sponsorship/funding required.

Lola are also producing a LMP and GTS for an unknown manufactuer. The LMP900 or LMGTP will have styling features carried over from the GTS car.

What are the odds that Lola's projects could be for MG?

[JAG]

Pretty low I would think. Haven't they fell out. I thought MG were looking at a GT version of the MG SV.

[Lee Janotta]

I think the current coralling of supercars into the GTS class is stupid... We need 3 different GT classes, 2 just isn't enough. They need higher homologation numbers than GT1 had, though, so that we don't see cars like the Mercedes, Toyota, Lotus and Porsche, but honest-to-goodness cars made for the road and converted for racing. And let them run for the overall win, with larger restrictors than the LMPs.

Before those GTP-style cars showed up in GT1, it was a hell of a class... Especially those Ferrari F40s. I honestly think the McLarens were the beginning of the class's downfall, although they were awesome to watch!

[JAG]

But the F1 GTRs were based on genuine road cars.

The Masarati and Lola are racing cars for the road yet they are going to race in GTS.

The ACO want to increase production numbers for GTS to 100. Small manufactuers like Pagani and Saleen can still produce 25 cars.

I do think it is necessary to give the new generation GTS cars(I have the 'Supercars' in mind rather than Viper and such like)some performance breaks wether it be restrictors, tyres, fuel tank, weight etc. to give them an outside chance of at least a top 6 finish.

[Garrett]

Jag, what about Porsche. You didn't say anything of their plans? Will Porsche lean more towards a GTP or LMP for thier return? And what year do you suspect to see them back to attack for another win?

Also, do you think Audi have already started on making thier GTP car for Le Mans 2004?

[Splatz the Cow]

Lee - interesting you mentioned the Lotus in your list of "evil cars" because most people think it was the porsche GT1 that was the first suspect car. However I think even the Lotus V8 (those black ones) was actually a kind of special built designed for the track car. I don't know how many Lotus they sold weighing 900Kg or even 1000Kg, that had the 580hp motor. Even one? I love the Lotus but its not really a development of any of the road going Esprits, and were it entered by anyone other than Team Lotus, it surely would have been more of winner.

The McLarens were I guess the right car at the right time if you could drive one but for the BPR they both made it and broke it. If it wasn't for the McLaren no one would even mention the 1995 and 1996 season of BPR, and further more, the following years of FIA-GT may have been very different. We may never have seen the McLaren longtail, Panoz, Porsche GT1, or even the Toyata GT1 and Audi R8.
The McLaren triggered the egos at Porsche and Ferrari, and then in America, forcing them to show their performance on the track.

[jase]

GT1's have had their time. GTP's are the way foreward for that type of vehicle.

The McLaren was the last true GT1 Sportscar within the spirit of the rules ie a road car built for speed and handling that was taken racing. The Porsche and Merc were purely built and bred for racing. As for the Toyota, that was PURE prototype.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by Splatz the Cow
The McLaren triggered the egos at Porsche and Ferrari, and then in America, forcing them to show their performance on the track.

My point exactly. It was so far advanced that it really forced the GTP-style GT1s.

The Lotus wasn't _so_ evil, but it was part of the trend. Worth mentioning the Nissan R390 as well, with those others that never did a drive to the store in anyone's hands.

[courage]

Hey don't forget one think:
The gt1 are based on road cars and that's the only reason why they desapeared... race cars were created and got a road homologation...That's just stupid
Now we have GTP, same cars but officially race cars so we don't need GT1
And actually the GT1 couldn't winn whereas they would be here for that...

[rdjones]

Originally posted by JAG
Pretty low I would think. Haven't they fell out. I thought MG were looking at a GT version of the MG SV.

Correct, yes they where, from what I understand they car was looked at by Dave Price Racing - I think the project was cancelled due to lack of finance.

[Lee Janotta]

Yes, but courage, that means supercars like the Zonda and the Ferrari Enzo have to race in GTS against regular production cars. Too wide a variety of machines in the one class.

[JAG]

Originally posted by Splatz the Cow
Lee - interesting you mentioned the Lotus in your list of "evil cars" because most people think it was the porsche GT1 that was the first suspect car. However I think even the Lotus V8 (those black ones) was actually a kind of special built designed for the track car. I don't know how many Lotus they sold weighing 900Kg or even 1000Kg, that had the 580hp motor. Even one? I love the Lotus but its not really a development of any of the road going Esprits, and were it entered by anyone other than Team Lotus, it surely would have been more of winner.

The McLarens were I guess the right car at the right time if you could drive one but for the BPR they both made it and broke it. If it wasn't for the McLaren no one would even mention the 1995 and 1996 season of BPR, and further more, the following years of FIA-GT may have been very different. We may never have seen the McLaren longtail, Panoz, Porsche GT1, or even the Toyata GT1 and Audi R8.
The McLaren triggered the egos at Porsche and Ferrari, and then in America, forcing them to show their performance on the track.

The Lotus Esprit V8 was a true road car with many 100s built.

The 900KG was just the minimun weight of GT1 and 580BHP, the most power from the restrictors possible. Afterall the F40 as a road car only had 480BHP with the GT1 car having 650/700BHP.

With GTs or touring cars for that matter the relative performance of the road cars is irrelevant to the race cars performance. Therefore you could have a C5R thats quicker than a Zonda or Enzo GTS car on the race tack, but the road cars performance are on different planets.

[Lee Janotta]

Wait wait wait... I'm talking about the Elise GT1 with the Chevrolet V8 in the back, not the Esprit!

[Smokey 6 litre]

Originally posted by Chevyguy
I think the Mclarens was only car that truly deserved to be in the class, because it was a production car first..

but they ALWAYS were intended to be raced.