And he wins again!

[oily oaf]

There's lies, damn lies and then there,s statistics. If Senna's career hadn't been so cruelly cut short TGF's championship winning stats would have taken on a whole new look.

[Peter Mallett]

I think it would have been close. There again Damon Hill may not have been in with a shout in 94 or 96. You can't turn back time so we can only go on the facts which show MS to be the best to date.

Sadly I can't see anyone in the current crop coming near him.

[oily oaf]

Agreed Peter. I thought the cupboard was bare in CART but with a couple of honourable exceptions, I,m thinking Kimi (I cant spell Raikonnen) and Alonso its a pretty dodgy old grid that confronts "the great man" on race days.
As for turning back the clock you're right of course but what a mouthwatering prospect all the same.

[Glen]

Here we go again! Perhaps Oily can explain the mystery of all these highly paid mediocre drivers for the last eight or more years? Or perhaps he can't!

I think his position is ridiculous - in order to explain away the obvious quality of a driver he prefers not to support he concludes that the drivers of this generation, despite being better prepared, trained and rewarded than any other generation, are somehow inferior!

Let's hear it Oily - it should be fun.

[Glen]

Dodgy old grid? Ha! Again - please try and explain how this can be? Where have all the good drivers gone in your opinion?

[Peter Mallett]

Glen.

There are talented racers on the grid. Both Williams Driver's, Kimi, Webber (and with a bit more luck) Justin, Alonso. Followed closely by Button and Fisichella. But the thing which stands Mickey the Shoe above all of them is (I guess this is the only word) tenacity.

They can all drive well. They can and do race but if there is a problem only Mickey is most likely to bring the car home "in the points".

That's the difference IMO.

FWIW I don't beleive Senna or any of the others had that quality (or good fortune).

So yes the grid may not be "dodgy" nor are the driver talentless. They are to date (sadly) lesser mortals though.

[oily oaf]

All I'm saying Glen is that there are peaks and troughs in all forms of sport, there are golden eras and there are times when for whatever reason the depth of talent just isnt there. This is one of those times and it has been the case for many years. The point I'm trying to make is that TGF while he can only beat what's put in front of him the lack of quality opposition he's encountered over the years make some of the overblown pronouncements from some quarters that he's the best of all time seem a bit silly.
As for his contempories u can train,prepare and be highly rewarded until you're blue in the face but it wont endow u with talent,you have to be born with that

[Gt_R]

Yes...it must be Michael and FIA 's fault to allow such a useless bunch of drivers compete in F1.

Is Michael supposed to apologise for Senna's accident or what? Or is he supposed to thank Senna for "gifting" him his tremendous records?

The argument is getting out of proportion. I suppose you know how much "talent" current drivers are born with...how about giving us some figures???

It's ridiculous. If F1 is such a pitiful state of affair, then don't watch.

[Glen]

You miss the point - is it not more reasonable to assume that he is making the oposition look inferior?

As Peter points out, Schumacher has qualities that make a difference between great driver and champion: race craft; tenacity; work rate; consistency; "luck" (as in the more he practices, the "luckier" he gets); team-building; technical excellence; political skill.... But his possession of these exceptional qualities (now allied with longevity!) does not make the opposition any less good. In another era many of today's drivers could have shone very brightly, especially when you consider the modern standards of fitness and preparedness - one of my all time favourites was Mansell, but over a whole season of modern F1 I fear very many of today's heroes could make Mansell look pretty average, that's how intense the sport has become.

[Red]

Mr Oats, how did you come to the conclusion that the grid is a "thoroughly mediocre bunch"? You know, everything is relative, how can you tell what this bunch of "losers" would've done in 60ies anyway? And by the way, Schumacher did "slightly better"? Hmm, I wonder what your definition of much better might be.

As for the

Originally posted by oily oaf
Somebody give him a little punt at Suzuka for Gords sake.

No comments, and I'm tempted to use that button

[oily oaf]

Okay Schumie is the greatest exponent of his art since time immemorial. His battles with his rival stars merely go to illustrate his greatness and deserved place in the motorsport firmament. Not only that he's very fond of his Granny. Alright now?

[Red]

No.

Noone asked you to say that, but refraining to post **** would be nice. Besides, you insulted every single guy who set foot in a F1 car in past 10 years, an apology would also be nice.

[Peter Mallett]

Red,

I don't think he insulted anybody. He did express an opinion and maybe showed some insensitivity to the skills of those in cars now. But anybody with a smidgeon of a sense of humour could easily ignore some of Oily's remarks. I do.

[oily oaf]

Now you're starting to bore me.

[oily oaf]

Sorry Peter that wasn't directed at you old chap

[Red]

PS: A mediocre bunch looks pretty much an insult to me

[Wrex]

I think we are done here too.

*sound of key turning*