Advertising on Historic Touring cars

[torana]

Hi there . I am a member of the Historic Touring Car Assoc of Victoria in Melbourne Australia. We are currently at the crossroads with regard to our category remaining under the Historic banner or moving out. the category has become so sucsessful that we are able to proudly boast approx 350-400 log booked car Australia wide. we regularly get invited to race at prestigous events such as the Aust G.P. The major touring car races for example at Bathurst. CAMS thre governing body of motorsport in Aust does not permit any advertising on any Historic car. (FULL STOP).

Even when Supporting the AGP we were not allowed to even run Category sponsorship.By that I mean the same logo on all the competing cars. I noticed that in the BARC/CSCC regulations covering Historic Touring Cars that advertising is allowed on these vehicles as per MSA regulations E2.24-E2.30.
I do not have access to these regulations and would like someone to be able to dig these regulations out and send them off to me if at all possible.
many thanks

[Peter Mallett]

Hi Torana,

We in the CSCC don't get to read the FIA regs too often so I'll ask Florian to give you the low-down on this one. He races in the FIA championship.

I'm also moving this to the Historic forum. See you there.

[This message has been edited by Peter Mallett (edited 20 February 2000).]

[Chris Griffin]

Torana.....I'll check the MSA regs you mention and let you know....

Chris G, CSCC - Editor

[elephino]

I thought advertising was allowed on cars which could be proven to be the real race car, and it could only run with any sponsorship it had when racing originally.

[Michael M]

Hereafter the original rules of the FIA Appendix K:

6.1.1) Advertising on Historic Cars of Periods A to I and Touring, GT and GTP cars

Advertising will be confined to a maximum of one space of 50cm x 14cm along the top, and one along the bottom, of three of the competition numbers (there being a maximum of four numbers per car). Should there be no room to insert the allowed advertising above and below the racing number, it may be placed adjacent to, but not touching, the number background. One of the two spaces attached to each competition number may be reserved for the race organiser's advertising, the use of which the competitor may not refuse. The driver's name may only appear once on each side of the car within the maximum dimensions of 10x40cm. One bona fide club badge may appear on each side of the car within the maximum dimensions of 10cm x 10cm. A car may be painted in its original advertising livery, provided that it is proved that the chassis number ran in that livery in period.

6.1.2) Advertising on two-seater racing cars of Periods G, H and I

a) Any car which can be proven by way of its history, through its chassis number via the FIA Historic Vehicle Identity Form, to have run in a particular livery (e.g. Gulf Porsche, L&M Lola) will be allowed to continue to display the livery in the same colours and original size of logos. It is not permitted to exploit this possibility in combination with that of point d) below.

b) One bona fide club badge, not exceeding 10cm x 10cm, may appear on each side of the car

c) The driver's name and relevant country flag may appear in one space, maximum 10cm x 40cm, on each side of the car.

d) Cars which are painted overall in a livery which is being used to emphasise or assist in denoting a team's personal sponsor will be allowed to be so, but the logos and/or sign writing displayed are restricted to 1 x front and 1 x each side of no more than 700cm2 each. It is not permitted to exploit this possibility in combination with that of point a) above.

e) 1 x front and 1 x each side spaces, of not more than 700cm2 each, may be reserved for the race organiser's advertising, the use of which the competitor may not refuse.

f) Furthermore, a total of 2100cm2 of additional advertising may be carried (with maxima of 700cm2 on the front and on each side), which may be divided into several stickers, each of which will be measured as the smallest rectangle which will contain it completely when calculating the total area.

g) All non-current advertising, with the exception of that in a), must be removed.

h) No other graphics or identification may be displayed upon the car (e.g. shark teeth designs, old race stickers, personal messages etc.).

i) Stickers may be placed next to the race numbers to identify the class of the vehicle, if so required by the event regulations.

[torana]

Thanks elephino for your reply.
yes cams will allow for original cars with a proven race history to race as it was raced at a given point in its race history. This includes its original advertisingin both style and size etc. Whilst this is great for those original cars its not much good for the rest because the majority of Historic touring cars that compete in Australia are replica cars representing the cars of the period so the cams reg does not apply to very many cars at all.

[torana]

Thanks Michaelm for you reply wrt the FIA schedule K of their rules. I have talked to Tim Schenken at CAMS wrt the FIA regulations but unfortunately the FIA regs do not override the local CAMS regs. The FIA regs only come in where the event is a direct FIA sanctioned International event. So we are left in the situation where we have to build a case to go to the Historic Car Commission to get the cams Reg changed. A bit like a David and Goliath. eventually we will prevail.

[Chris Griffin]

Torana ...I checked the MSA regs referred to in our CSCC Tech Regs that you mentioned. They refer to areas to be left free for series or championship sponsors next to Race nos on the sides of racecars. Generally there are no restrictions on advertising on any racecar in the UK, however some of the tweed jacket brigade frown at advertising on Historic (Pre 66) saloons. The CSCC allows advertising in all our championships primarily to allow competitors to find extra funding in order to run there cars. The sport is expensive enough as it is. I would have thought CAMS should have no problem allowing sponsorship advertising on 70's Toranas and the like at least!

Best Regards

Chris G - CSCC Editor

PS. Do you know Garry O'Brien of The Appendix J Assoc of NSW? If you all got together and approached CAMS would they not listen?

PPS Do you guys have a website we can look at?

[This message has been edited by Chris Griffin (edited 24 February 2000).]

[torana]

Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply. he biggest problem tht we have is that thewre has never been much agreement between Victoria and New South Wales since the landing of the first fleet in 1788. Seriously though we are in agreement that something needs to be done WRT to the sponsorship on our race cars. The biggest problem is with the Historic car comission who are a string back glove brigade , in that it all has to be considered as "Amateur Motorsport" if it is to be historic. They are still to move into the new century. It also seems to be that some elements have adopted the divide and rule/conquer mentality. In that if we can destabilise either the NSW or Vic club then nothing will happen beacause we have them fighting amongst themselves. Now that we have a national body, be it in its infancy, we are rapidly getting to the stage where we are less likely to be destabilised from infighting.

The Victorian chapter of the touring car fraternity is titled the "Historic Touring Car Asociation Of Vic. inc". We started life as the Appendix J Assoc of Victoria but recognised with the fore thought of a smart committee that we probably needed to cahange as the Cams were looking at incorporating into the regulations cars fro 1964-72 and probably later the casrs from 1972 -84. these dates are not arbitary but recognise significant dates in the change of touring car regulations. to be right up to date a resolution was passed at the general meeting last Wednesday night to the effect that the committee of the HTCAV was authorised to put pressure ton the Historic Car Commission to change tohe regulations or the category would look at moving out from under the Historic Banner and run as another independant class/category. we dont really want to do this but oif it was to happen there would be serious repercussions at the 3 Historic Race meetings in Victoria. for example Phillip islane Historic has 88 Group N cars out of a total field of approx 280-300 entries,Winton Historic gets 55-60 cars out of 260-270, sandown Historic gets 48 -50 out of 300. take out approx 25-30% of the entries and the promotors cannot afford to run a historic race meeting. That's what it may all come down to eventually. Dollars and bums on seats. i could probably rabbit on for hours but Ive got do get my little girl to bed.

Currently the Vics do not ahve a web site but it is in the planning/ development stage.

Personally I don't know gary but do know of his exploits. I think he will be at phillip island so will have an ale with him.

regards
Peter Sneddon (alias torana) cause thats what I race

[Florian Lacroix]

Hi Torana,
sorry for this late answer but Michael said everything on FIA TC rules for advertising : 50cm by 14cm and a club sticker of 10cm by 15cm.

[DAVID PATERSON]

G'Day Peter, how about coming over to the racer's forum and telling us about your car and the Victorian tracks, we could use some historic touring car input in our forum.