NON-WC races in Argentina befor 1950

[AUSTRIA]

Who can post here the results of listed GP:

1947-02-09 Buenos Aires GP Retiro
1947-02-09 Buenos Aires GP Retiro
... why two races in one week?

1948-01.17 Buenos Aires GP Palermo
1948-02-14 Premio Dalmiro Valera Castex Palermo

1949-01-30 Buenos Aires GP Palermo
1949-12-18 Buenos Aires GP Palermo

and as a supplement, presumable not in Argentina:
1947-03-02 Rosario GP (where ever this location may be)

[jarama]

I don't know the results of this races, but I can help you a little bit:

1948-01-17 Fangio (Maserati 1500) retired
1948-02-14 Fangio (Simca-Gordini 1220) 8th.

1949-01-30 Fangio (Maserati 4CLT/48) 4th.
1949-12-18 Fangio (Ferrari Tipo 125) 2nd.

1947-03-02 Fangio (Ford T-Chevy) 6th.

About Rosario, is a city located approximately 200 kms. NW from Buenos Aires.

[AUSTRIA]

Thank you, jarama, its a beginning

E.T.

[Testa Rossa]

Here is what I have for this early Temporada. I would be very please to know if your research diggs completed results.
I have precised the entrant and when I could
the chassis number

Sorry for my English, I am only a 20 years old French guy.

1949, January 30th
Grand Prix du General Peron
Parc de Palermo

Maserati 4CLT/48 Scuderia Ambrosiana 1
Ascari
Maserati 4CLT/48 Scuderia Ambrosiana 2
Villoresi
Maserati 4CLT/48 Scuderia Argentina ? Fangio
Maserati 4CLT/48 Scuderia Argentina ?
Campos
Maserati 4CLT/48 Privée ?
Bira
Gordini Type 15 (10GC)Equipe Gordini Wimille (death in qualifying)


1949, November 18th
Grand Prix du General Peron
Parc de Palermo

Ferrari 125 F1 Scuderia Ferrari 1
Ascari
Ferrari 125 F1 Scuderia Argentina 2
Fangio
Ferrari 125 F1 Scuderia Ferrari 3
Villoresi
Ferrari 166 FL (011F)Scuderia Argentina 4
Campos
Talbot-Lago T26C Ph. Etancelin Abandon 23°
Etancelin Oil Pressure
Talbot-Lago T26C L. Rosier Abandon 14°
Rosier Brakes

[AUSTRIA]

Thank you, Testa Rossa. It is very interesting and there result some more questions. I'll come back on this topic, but it will last two or three weeks, for I have to wait on some more sources I've ordered in the meantime.

For the first: Are you shure, it was the 010CG, killing Wimille ?

It's interesting, that in Marseille Achille Varzi (Scuderia Argentina) entered two Simca-Gordinis for Fangio (winner) and Campos(finished 5th), butI don't know the chassis numbers at the moment. Maybe Wimille drove one of this cars, but when he drove for Equipe Gordini, as you mentioned, i think it was 011CG. As I sayed, I have to wait for my new sources. Then there will follow some discussion, as I canpromise you.

E.T.

P.S. The english of a 20-years old french guy seems to be better as the one of an 42-years old austrian fellow.

It's not often seen, that such a young guy is interested in historic GP-matter; how does it come?

[Gary,U.S. Fan]

I must say I am impressed with the English of all of you who do not speak it as your mother tongue. Thanks, and keep up the good work.

[This message has been edited by Gary,U.S. Fan (edited 27 February 2000).]

[Testa Rossa]

To E.T. (and all interested...)

I am quite sure 10GC killing Wimille. It was sent to Argentina along with 7GC (which was the spare car). After the tragic event, both cars were sold to Argentina Automobile Club and stayed in Argentina.

The cars used by Fangio and Campos in Marseille in May 1949 were in fact works cars lent to chille Varzi for his Scuderia Argentina and painted in red with blue bonnet. Fangio (first) was in 8GC and Campos (fifth) in 9GC.

11GC was new for Trintignant at Pau on April 18th. (he finished fifth)

The informations above are from “Gordini, un Sorcier, une Equipe” by Christian Huet, published by Editions Christian Huet (priced at 490 French Francs when launched in 1985), which is quite incredible in depth. (The author had access to Gordini's personal archives and himself owned several Gordini Grand Prix cars). The book is well known in french circles, but I don’t know if you will be able to find it in Austria. If so, and if you can cope with French, I think it could be useful for your work about the years 1945-1951. (You can of course ask me more questions about Gordinis)

Can you please give me more details about your work? Are you dealing only with Grand Prix or are you also interested in Sports Car racing?

I am myself trying to compilate a personal file listing as much results as I can. Therefore I am interested in Formula 1 (including non championship races), Formula 2, Sports Car racing (including non championship races), ETC, Formule Tasmane, European Mountain Championship. The project
covers the year 1946 to nowadays, but is currently much more centered about the 50s and 60s, my favorite era.

My passion for this era started in 1992 when I bought a french magazine (Automobiles Classiques)for an article about the Jaguar XJ220, and found inside a work by the great french specialist Antoine Prunet about the Ferrari 250 GT Sperimentale (2643 GT), prototype of the 250 GTO ! Since that’s
day, current Supercars appears to me a little boring... (The issue also contained a study of the Bugatti Type 54 by Maurice Sauzay)

Testa Rossa

PS : Thank you for my English, but perhaps this message will make you changing your mind...

[AUSTRIA]

Hi Testa Rossa

Thank you for your fantastic detailes about the Type 15. It truely closes a gap in my records and my appetite arises ...
(Tim will be able to tell you, what I mean, and if he is only a little bit honest to you, he will warn you against corresponding with me.)

Your sources on Gordini seem to be excellent and we can take your information as facts, I think. Can you please give me a short info about the ISBN Code of 'Gordini, un Sorcier, une Equipe' by Christian Huet and some characterization (Number of Pages, Pictures, Statistics, Text)? I already recognized the existance of his Ferrari-books, but not his Gordini-bible, what it seems to be. And I was not able to find any tracks of it by my first try.

More details about my work? I'll try to give you a short answer, but if you are deeper interested, we will have to change to @mail. Am I also interestet in sports cars? I am, I am in deed. More and more. One aspect of my work, growing wide in the times before 1945, is the development of the different main categories of car-racing. (I'm totaly not interestet in bike-racing). The evolution of racing-cars, so to call. And it has thrown me back to 1895 and even some years earlier. (The Bollées, DeDion, Bouton, Serpollet, Marcus, Daimler and Maybach, Benz, Panhard & Levassor, Peugot, ... ) And the very most interesting point is the origin of the sports cars. And one can say, the french ones played a very important role, not only in the Thirties, when sports cars were the french response to the german GP-superiority. For me statistics are only one, but effective, way to see the connections behind the facts. And my first interests are not numbers or standings, but the people making the racing-world go round.
One topic, that fascinates me all the time, while I'm working on this racing-stuff are the french (and belgian) 'Ecuries'.

You are right, that current sportscars appear a little boring, but it seems to better. As I told Tim, at the moment I take into consideration visiting 24 Heures Du Mans this year, and he announced going there next year. Maybe I postpone and we will meet there all together in 2001 ...

E.T.

PS: Do you speak German?

[TimD]

AUSTRIA, you are too cruel to yourself.

Testa Rossa, AUSTRIA's e-mails are a delight to receive. And the hunting that they inspire through my library keeps me on my toes daily.

I have learned much myself, and I am looking forward to the day when he is able to publish, or present his efforts.

AUSTRIA, as always, I haven't forgotten you. However, a lot of my internet time just at the moment is dedicated to sorting out deals on ebay auctions. Remember I told you I was an aircraft enthusiast as well? Well, I have been trying to thin down part of my library, and it is startling just how many books are being bought by Americans and Australians. That means a lot of checking airfreight prices and dollar exchanges.

Rest assured I shall try to answer some of your queries, though.

Tim

[Testa Rossa]

Hi Austria

“Gordini, un Sorcier, une Equipe” has ISBN-2-9500432-0-8.
The book makes 475 pages, with about one picture per page. It can be divided in four parts. The first 400 pages are a chronological account of all races from 1935 to 1957. Then the author presents each
individual chassis in one page with basic specifications and owners. (This section includes some recent color shots). The third part is the race log from 1935 to 1957, which almost always mentions chassis, engine and race numbers. The last pages are used for a technical description of every types of Gordini. The book also includes a lot of factory plans and a sublime cutaway drawing from Autosport of a Gordini Type 32. (I think it is the work of the great Theo Page). As you can assume, this book is really a wonderful one!

I would be very pleased to set-up an @mail relation with you. I think we can have a very good time sharing our knowledge. I am not very used to @mails, so if you sent me some and never get answered, let me know in the forum...

Sorry, I don’t speak German. If you want to try French...


To Tim

Thank you for your opinion about working with Austria.

PS : My biggest fear is fire in my bookcase to...

Testa Rossa

[AUSTRIA]

To Test Rossa

Thanks for your very detailed information about the Huet-book. Seems to be a must ...

For i am kept very busy these days by my profession (occupation), I will be brief this time. Be patiant please and expect a @mail within about two weeks.

Then we will try my French-knowledge. Poor Testa Rossa ...

E.T.