M. Schumacher second place

[Carla O]

Originally posted by Jersound
Carla O

What is there not to like about Rubens Barichello?

well...

Originally posted by Rated R
Barichello is a whiner.

my thoughts exactly


he moans and whines too much, yet he bows down and lets ferrari and TGF do what they want to him.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by Carla O


well...



my thoughts exactly


he moans and whines too much, yet he bows down and lets ferrari and TGF do what they want to him.

Carla, read teh post race conference an dother elated stories about the Ferrari team orders here: http://www.atlasf1.com/news/
You might get a better idea of where Rubens is coming from.

[GrAC3R]

"How can anyone have pride in the WDC when he knows that he cheated his team mate for the points? You tell me!! "

Im afraid i cant answer that for i am not Michael and not in his position (My F1 career never really did take off and so unfortunately only MS can tell you what he thinks and feels....

Schumacher did say this though :

"There are some people who don't like it, other people who understand what we want to do... you're free to have a different opinion but accept our opinion as well. Wait till the next races and you will see what McLaren will do."

"As for "only the person in question knows these things", read what Rubens had to say about being asked repeatedly to let TGF past."

Umm so now Rubino understands the inner workings of Michael? thats rich (I think you misunderstood what i meant by that line).
Rubens is upset and so he should be, but did RB really think things would be different when he joined Ferrari? That would be kinda naive dont you think? Anyway, He's a grown man im sure he will cope.
I for one expected Ferrari to do just exactly as they did, and in turn wouldnt be so shocked as you apparently are if <GASP> another F1 Team pulled the same stunt.

Lets be honest here, the fuss is exaggerated 10 fold only because of 2 simple facts:

(1) MS
(2) Ferrari

I have noted on this forum most people given the slightest sniff will pounce on anything pertaining to the above Driver/Team combination and you are as it seems no exception.

[RussianFriend]

Poor race of TGF!!!!

He has overslept the start and passed two drivers.
He wasn't able to overtake Monty while his car was becoming weakened and couln't invent something better than to blame him for it.

TGF didn't deserved such a gift for Rubens.

[GrAC3R]

Poor Post RF!!!


Wow! No prejudice in that post...hehe
just posting flamebait..? <SHRUGS>

Either way this will be a quickie:

"He has overslept the start and passed two drivers."

To the contrary, he admitted there were complications with the launch control and had to make a manual start. Now, seeing as 4 other car had problems, heck didnt even get off the mark, i dont find his words hard to believe. Bad start...yes, it would have been worse, although too bad for you it was not.

"He wasn't able to overtake Monty while his car was becoming weakened and couln't invent something better than to blame him for it."

This is wildly open to debate, watch the replay again and take a closer look, im certain you already have your own opinion as stated above as do i and hence my words will do naught in trying to persuade you otherwise. Not to mention that your remark has nothing to do with the topic and you are mostly likely looking to evoke a hostile response...

"TGF didn't deserved such a gift for Rubens."

Have to agree with you there, but moaning about it wont change the outcome. You'll be sure to comment again when another team pulls the same trick wont you? Cause you wouldnt be bashing the subject just cause it involves MS/Ferrari? No, you would not stoop to that level would you my RussianFriend?

[Peter Mallett]

To be fair, TGF also struggled to overtake Panis and IMHO he was gifted third by a compliant Raikonnen. So all in all a poor showing from TGF.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by GrAC3R
"How can anyone have pride in the WDC when he knows that he cheated his team mate for the points? You tell me!! "

Im afraid i cant answer that for i am not Michael and not in his position (My F1 career never really did take off and so unfortunately only MS can tell you what he thinks and feels....

No!! I am asking you how ANYONE can have pride when he cheats his team mate for his points. You can take this line into any other sport or even into the business world. Cheating a team mate for his points is nothing to be proud of when you win. You don't have to be TGF to know what or how cheating is not appreciated by the fair minded.

For your information, I have never cheated on any team mate or opponent in any of the sailing championships that I have won.

[RussianFriend]

GrAC3R,

if Ron Dennis might blame DC for the same, why should I deny myself the pleasure of doing that (we have not statistic, so we can't know it presisely). In other case I may to say my sorry, because I realy was sure he missed the start. I say: sorry.

Regarding Monty, I know the following: his car was becoming slow and loosing control. If TGF might wait a little, he wouldn't missed so many positions. Michael hadn't shown his famouus strategy and track-keeping ability. You can say that he was trying to overtake and it's soprt. You will be right. But the facts I always respect TGF (seriously) he has logic and track-feelings. But not in this race.

[GrAC3R]

Valve Bounce,

This argument was about you claiming the following, and i quote:

"The guy has no ideals, no pride in himself or in the value of the WDC"

You were referring to MS and my original post still stands...no one but Michael knows if he is void of pride. As for the Ideals, WDC value and yadda yadda yadda like i said its all conjecture you cant know this if you are not MS, which annoyingly is still the point im trying to make even though you want to contort everything.

Now we have this:

"No!! I am asking you how ANYONE can have pride when he cheats his team mate for his points. You can take this line into any other sport or even into the business world."

And how may i ask does anyone answering this question Justify or prove your original remark??? Which <Drum Roll Please> was what
this verbal joust was started about in the first place.

[massifheed]

GrAC3R, the tone of your posts seems to be getting more and more provocative, surely it is better to debate rather than argue? Just an observation.

[GrAC3R]

Of course..yes, mine are the provocative posts, never mind the absurd accusations/name calling by numerous others on this forum and i could
provide a lists of quotes if need be.
And Massifheed do tell me...How does your post serve to do anything but provoke? Hmmm maybe your "observations" skills arent what you believe them to be

[massifheed]

GrAC3R, Calm down, nothing I said could serve to provoke you unless you read it wrong or are just trying to start an argument. Who has called you names?

Valve Bounce is perfectly entitled to say what he feels on the subject matter without fear of having his post rubbished by your comments. Yes we know that no-one can know what Schumacher is thinking, but there is little to gain by labouring your point over and over, and having read many threads on this site, you are unlikely to change anyones point of view.

You said:
"Hmmm since when were you given voice to speak on behalf of the other F1 Teams? who can say what a team may or may not do? But, please go ahead and spout forth your anti Schumacher/Ferrari rhetoric, it is amusing to read... "

"Im sorry Valve Bounce i didnt realize you were all knowing on the inner workings of MS's psyche. Geeez i guess you are either (A)infact Schumacher or (B)your a close personal friend with a degree in psychology? Or perhaps what your saying is just utter speculation based on your dislike of him? its a tough call......"

Would you not agree that your comments, on the whole, are sarcastic in the least and possibly, to many people, provocative inasmuch as it makes them want to fire back with an equally sarcastic quip? Such threads always degenerate into slanging matches, therefore I shall say no more on the subject. I do, of course, expect you to post something else just to get the last word in, go ahead. I was merely pointing out what I saw from reading the thread from start to finish.
My observation skills are fine.

I do, however, agree that Ferrari made the correct call on behalf of the team. For Rubens, the difference between 2nd and 3rd is nothing to cry about. It's racing, it's business, whichever way you look at it Ferrari will want to gain the most out of the positions that they had, and to maximise their standing in the WDC it was a necessary move to make.

[Murph]

Hi GrAC3R.... and welcome aboard!

Glad to see a new face on the forum.....especially one who actually seems to put some thought into his posts......which is becoming rare around these parts! Just don't fool yourself that in trying to make your point in a rational way that the "haters & hypocrits" will respond in kind........ last thing they need to get in the way of their views is rational thought...... Well, keep up the good postings....and remember.."Who is John Galt?"

take care

Murph

[renaultbel]

Somebody of my class have pay-tv and there you could chose out of 5 screens for following the race and on 1 of is screens was standing the pit crew of Ferrari and almost on the last lap somebody have say "Let Schumacher past it is for the WDC I repeat let Schumacher past" so this are team orders I think. For me it is to early for team orders maybe in the last 3 ore 4 race's you may use team orders but not so fast.

[Neil C]

If you consider F1 a team sport (which I do), then I don't know how you can say what Ferrari did was wrong.

RB knew this would happen before he ever slipped into a red suit. His public complaining is his way of saving face. His delay in yielding to MS was his way of saying "I can beat him".

I'm not a Schumacher fan, but if he is the number one driver on the number one team, with all the advantages that go along with it, it is because he has earned it. How can anyone say that is "cheating"?

Ferrari would finish 2nd and 3rd, whether or not RB was ordered to yield. What they do within their own team is their business. They can't be faulted for it.

[Liz]

Once a person has made up his mind, no matter what anyone says he still believes he is right. If TGF has made up his mind that winning at all costs is the only aim of his life, then appeals to good sportsmanship, the Golden Rule, etc. will have no effect. The only arguments he will hear are the ones that will support his win-at-all-costs philosphy. This is akin to Al Gore's "There is no controlling legal authority" argument: if there is not a specific Thou Shalt Not, then it's okay to do it. If mother never said "Don't poke your brother in the eye with a stick" then it's okay to do that, too, I guess.

And I am sure that, in his heart of hearts, TGF was ashamed of his behaviour yesterday and he is very much hoping that we will all forget it and exult with him when he wins the championship with those two points he did not earn and does not deserve. Saying he "deserves" them because his bosses held his rival down and allowed him to hit him is specious.

[Tristan]

Murph, that's probably the best post anyone's posted on this forum!

WHY IS EVERYONE JUMPING ON TGF's BACK!! It was TEAM, I repeat, TEAM orders!! Surley it should be Ross and Jean we should be having a blast at!!

Ross and Jean: WHY DO YOU INSIST ON DOING THIS!!!??? Ferrari is the team I love, and I hate to see its name dragged through the mud, but for PETE'S SAKE, you can see why! Team orders for the last couple of races, fine. BUT SIX RACES IN?? Grrr..... I CAN understand why, you want TGF to win the WDC. Of COURSE you want to support the one who's got the most points. Fair enough (so do I, well either him or the other Ferrari!!) but nevertheless, IT STINKS!! It's just not good race-craft.

But that being said, McL do it the FIRST race in the season, so they're fine one's to talk!!

[JAM]

Hi everyone,

I tried to catch up with all the comments on this subject, but it is really long.

I don't understand the surprise of so many people over the desicion of Ferrari to allow MS to take 2nd. place.

1. MS is Ferrari. The scuderia was built around him and unless he is out of posibility to win the driver championship (mathematical or for absence), MS is the #1 choice. The second seat at Ferrari is a supporting role and that will not change. Come on Rubinho, get real.

2. Team orders: Every team has its own philosophy. McLaren gives support to both drivers until one of them is completely out of possibility to have a run for the drivers championship. It is the way of McLaren to keep both drivers and their mechanics motivated. McLaren even goes as far as to keep the test driver (which they call the third driver) motivated by having an active role in the PR of the team, this ensure that the third driver can jump in the car to replace any of the regular dirvers and carry on. What about Luca Badoer Ferrari's test driver?? I let that to you to figure it out.

I guess that the only unpleasant issue of yesterday was:

1. The team order to back up MS came up very early in the season. Even with 3rd. place MS would have been in the lead over DC by 2 points.
2. Rubens is in a solid 3rd position in the WC and the additional 2 points would have let him be a great back up for Ferrari to take over the fight of the Drivers Championship in the event that something happen to MS in the future (remember his situation in 1999, when MS had his accident and Ferrari was put in a position to have Irvine fight for the Championship, not very motivated I might say).

In the end it is all about gambling, Ferrari puts all the money on one man. McLaren keep both options open until the end so in case one doesn't work out they have the other driver well motivated to carry on.

Who got it right or who got it wrong? only time will tell which add another interesting twist to this wonderful sport that we all love.

Go DC!!!It is time for a Scottish WC.

[JeremySmith]

Liz..Michael did not make the call..Jean Todt did

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by Murph
....and remember.."Who is John Galt?"

Murph

Who is John Galt? :confused: