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4 Apr 2004, 23:03 (Ref:930304)
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#26 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,544
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Mercedes may own 40 % of McLaren but it might be better if thay owned nothing and McLaren was free to go elsewhere for their engine supply and manufacturer tie-ups. This is embarrassing for everyone and there are obviously some major problems in the engineering departments at Ilmor and at Maccas. I don't believe they have designed two duds in a row but you have to wondeer about ron's battle to keep Newey a few years ago. Nothing against Adrian but turnover keeps a team on it's toes and fresh blood keeps the team moving forward to a degree. I do believe in stability but I also believe inertia and stagnation are not suitable attributes for F1 teams and I wonder if Mclaren needs to do some house cleaning. The staff may all be great but something is clearly not gelling at Paragon and it needs to change.
Last edited by Teretonga; 4 Apr 2004 at 23:08. |
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5 Apr 2004, 04:46 (Ref:930506)
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#27 | |
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Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
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They've not moved into Paragon yet.....
Anyway - the problem lies not with Adrian but with Mercedes. Put a Toyota engine in the MP4-19 and it would at least be up there with BAR and Williams. |
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5 Apr 2004, 05:19 (Ref:930522)
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#28 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,646
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Mercedes do not have engine failures.
The cars suffer hydraulic or electical systems failure (usually caused by a piston going through the related part on its way to the outside world) Last edited by mark_l; 5 Apr 2004 at 05:19. |
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5 Apr 2004, 06:06 (Ref:930555)
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#29 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,211
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Re: Mercedes - an utter disgrace
Quote:
 Imo, the biggest problems are...
Last edited by Mr V; 5 Apr 2004 at 06:09. |
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__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
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5 Apr 2004, 07:34 (Ref:930615)
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#30 | |
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Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
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Ron would never slag off the engine supplier.
Even between 1990 and 1991, when Honda changed from a V10 to a V12 which was heavier but had no more power than the old one, he didn't criticise it. When the Peugeot engines constantly detonated in 1994, Ron allowed them to be described as electrical problems. He realises there's nothing to be gained by publicly criticising the engine maker. Behind closed doors though, he'll be fuming. |
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5 Apr 2004, 07:51 (Ref:930633)
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#31 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,512
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Congrats to Ron, but the problem is really amazing; a freshly mounted engine, with no quals to stand, blows up after a pocketful of laps, we can give many explanatiomns about how it al happended, but why it did is real mistery.
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__________________
You got to learn how to fall, before you learn to fly P.Simon
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5 Apr 2004, 07:54 (Ref:930637)
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#32 | |
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
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Ferrari had very unreliable engines in the past - now they're powerful and reliable.
Hopefully Mercedes can do the same. |
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5 Apr 2004, 08:11 (Ref:930647)
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#33 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,917
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IMO,One problem with Mercedes/Mclaren is that knowing the gap to Ferrari is so huge, instead of merely trying to catch up, they try to out-do Ferrari, and tried to take things way too far. On paper, Mclaren is one of the most advanced car with the latest technology, ideas,lots of special material, parts..but it isn't fully tested properly, brings the car too much over limit of tolerance and the end result is a car that fails often.
And funny thing that after Ferrari won their first recent WDC/WCC in 2000, Ron said something along the line that "Ferrari didn't win it, Mclaren lost it...and hopefully they'd have to wait another 21 years for their next title"... well..Ferrari went on to conquer every year since then..  Well done Ferrari..buck up Mercedes! But frankly, i think Mclaren/Mercedes should pull back abit on their ideas/concepts and try something a bit more conservative than what they have now...just to gain more data/information before they go for a big leap. |
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Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to."
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5 Apr 2004, 10:32 (Ref:930782)
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#34 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 13,000
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Quote:
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5 Apr 2004, 10:51 (Ref:930806)
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#35 | |
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Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
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It must be so frustrating for Ron and Adrian having to hear the fans having a go at them when in actual fact they've done wonders to be as competitive as they have when the engine's been getting compartively worse every year.
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5 Apr 2004, 10:55 (Ref:930814)
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#36 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,035
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Personally if I was a team boss, i'd come out on live TV and say the engine is ****!
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__________________
DILLIGAF DIGAF DIF
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5 Apr 2004, 11:49 (Ref:930879)
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#37 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 981
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I agree with pretty much everythign here, IMHO the biggest lacking factor in the Macca/merc package is the fact the engine is woefully underpowered and unreliable.
Not only is it hurting the image of Merc, but they really really need to sort out their public relations. I mean come on, when its obvious on TV that its the ENGINE that has failed, don't go round saying your not sure, until you can get it back to have a look... Also giving the ITV guys a "wrap on the knuckles" (JR's words) for stating it was an engine failure for kimi early in the weekend, when it "apparently" wasn't is just plain stupid, and a good way to get the media to turn against you. Haug and Co need to sort that out, as it is now just coming across as arogance... If Merc do take over McLaren, I seriously fear for the competitiveness of the team, as it just doesn't seem to be coping at the moment (ok not as bad as maybe the mid nineties). |
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__________________
watch this space :)
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5 Apr 2004, 11:49 (Ref:930880)
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#38 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,744
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Quote:
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__________________
I want you to drive flat out
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5 Apr 2004, 12:11 (Ref:930902)
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#39 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 639
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Thats the first time Ive ever seen an electrical failure that has resulted in flames extending 3 feet behind the car and anough smoke to think the Gulf war was back on again.
The Grumpy1  
Last edited by grumpy1; 5 Apr 2004 at 12:12. |
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5 Apr 2004, 12:13 (Ref:930903)
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#40 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Its a good job patrick knows how to speak his mind eh, i don't think ralf will be a williams driver for much longer.... Last edited by Try Hard; 5 Apr 2004 at 12:13. |
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__________________
watch this space :)
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5 Apr 2004, 13:16 (Ref:931026)
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#41 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Spot on!
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__________________
watch this space :)
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5 Apr 2004, 15:07 (Ref:931154)
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#42 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,646
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The reason Ron Dennis will not criticise Mercedes is down to the McLaren "ABC", Always Be Corporate.
And also that he is trying to sell his share of Mclaren to Mercedes to fund his retirement. Now Jurgen Hubbert has left I dont think RD will be around for long. |
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5 Apr 2004, 15:50 (Ref:931198)
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#43 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,727
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Well, I *did* like the way Coulthard managed to park his broken car very close to two Mercedes cars that were obviously still working ...
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5 Apr 2004, 16:44 (Ref:931231)
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#44 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 729
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The faster Mercedes fall and sell their share of Mac, the better. I don't like Maclaren but I have an active dislike of the Mercedes corporation.
The sooner Honda/BMW/Renault blow them out of the water, the better. |
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__________________
Gawky supermodels may look stunning in the right clothes, on the right catwalk, in the right city, but in an M&S jumper, on a crowded street, on a wet Wednesday afternoon, only classic good looks will catch the eye. - Ian Eveleigh.
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5 Apr 2004, 16:46 (Ref:931234)
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#45 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 184
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i would like to see kimi in a ferrari now.
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5 Apr 2004, 19:49 (Ref:931455)
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#46 | |||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,837
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New Spokesman
Quote:
 He's baaaack!  http://fiesta.focuscosworth.co.uk/ch...2004529607.jpg 
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__________________
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
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5 Apr 2004, 22:39 (Ref:931639)
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#47 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,340
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Ahhh settle down McLaren fans Mercedes will have it figured out soon enough, if not this year then the next for sure.
In the meantime...welcome to my world that was Honda while Villeneuve drove for them...try taking five years of pathetic engine making, then feel free to lash out. |
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Doesn't it seem sad that drivers like Fisichella, Coultard, Barrichello, and Ralf all have secure seats in F1, despite having had race winning cars for many more seasons than Jacques, yet failing to chalk up as many wins as he (let alone a WDC) that it is Jacques who doesn't have a drive in F1??? Sad indeed.
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