Ralf's Race

[Don K]

Originally posted by golem
Here's another way of putting it. Ron hunted out Montoya for 2005. Not Ralf.

I don't think so.

As far as I know, Montoya decided to leave Williams after the row they had during one of the race weekends mid season 2003.

[Damon]

Yes, JPM decided to leave, but Ron wasted no time in snapping up his services did he.

[Don K]

Originally posted by Damon
Yes, JPM decided to leave, but Ron wasted no time in snapping up his services did he.

I assume Juan started looking at the top teams.
And the first seat at a top team that was not yet announced at the time, was one seat at McLaren for 2005.

So it's not strange that Ron accepted.

-----

However, in case you meant to say that Ron would not have signed Ralf so soon, had it been Ralf rather than Juan:

At this moment I tend to agree with you.

[Damon]

I'd be suprised if JPM went door knocking at any point.

[golem]

I think Ron went head hunting, personally. Coulthard had just been dominated by Kimi pretty bad and he wanted someone strong. Nothing short of a strong team would get the Macs ahead of their rivals.

I kinda feel sorry for Pablo about now though. I mean, he is absolutely decimating Ralf in pace, but couldn't convert it to points. Meanwhile, next year's team is blowing up even more spectacularly and being slow to boot.

Sure, they might recover, but I bet Pablo will be going all out to make use of this car while he has it.

[N I Tram]

Considering that he effectively got a let-off for his Hockenheim mistake, it's unbelievable that he hasn't been punished. Someone who's been in F1 for this long should know how to attempt an overtaking move in a chicane. The only justice is that Sato suffered far less for it.

The real loser in this succession of brain-dead drives from Ralf is Frank Williams. BMW forced him into hiring a German driver, and no one else was on offer. Ralf became secure in his drive, and started to cruise and collect all too often. The statistic that he's got 22 points in 10 races, without a mechanical failure or a retirement he can blame on someone else (not that he hasn't tried to), sums him up. And, worst of all, he's getting rich off it.

[DavidStHubbins]

I disagree that JPM is decimating Ralf for pace. In qualifying they are very matched, same goes for the race lap times.

Difference is Ralf is snatching the dunce-hat off JPM more often and parading about with it in the races and doing stupid errors.

I agree JPM is better than Ralf but the margin has rarely reached my expectation.

[Dani Filth]

let me . see . Toyota has 100 million $ and they want a new driver ... how many race winners are available on the grid ???
1.MSchumacher .. nope
2.Rubens .. nope
3.JPM .. nope
4.Alonso .. nope
5.Fisichella . he could be
6.Raikkonen . nope
7.Coulthard . available
8.Ralf Schumacher ... available
9.Olivier Panis .. they already got him

the only viable options are DC and Ralf .. and my choice anyday would be Ralf... but i'm no chief at Toyota ..

[Adam43]

That is a good point. Ralf isn't helping himself, but if you want to get a race winner and are willing to pay then he is probably your best bet...

[hamsmith]

let me . see . Toyota has 100 million $ and they want a new driver ... how many race winners are available on the grid ???
1.MSchumacher .. nope
2.Rubens .. nope
3.JPM .. nope
4.Alonso .. nope
5.Fisichella . he could be
6.Raikkonen . nope
7.Coulthard . available
8.Ralf Schumacher ... available
9.Olivier Panis .. they already got him

the only viable options are DC and Ralf .. and my choice anyday would be Ralf... but i'm no chief at Toyota ..



HELLO! Villeneuve is available. maby not on the grid but a little more than a race winner who still has the desire to race and i would think by now understands that he's not worth as much as he thought before. Whatever you Vileneuve haters say you cannot deny that he is miles better a choice than R Schumacher.

[Don K]

Originally posted by hamsmith
let me . see . Toyota has 100 million $ and they want a new driver ... how many race winners are available on the grid ???
1.MSchumacher .. nope
2.Rubens .. nope
3.JPM .. nope
4.Alonso .. nope
5.Fisichella . he could be
6.Raikkonen . nope
7.Coulthard . available
8.Ralf Schumacher ... available
9.Olivier Panis .. they already got him

the only viable options are DC and Ralf .. and my choice anyday would be Ralf... but i'm no chief at Toyota ..



HELLO! Villeneuve is available. maby not on the grid but a little more than a race winner who still has the desire to race and i would think by now understands that he's not worth as much as he thought before. Whatever you Vileneuve haters say you cannot deny that he is miles better a choice than R Schumacher.

No.

Villeneuve has won races in the distant past.

But Ralf and David are drivers that win races year after year after year ...
The only other drivers in that category are Michael and Rubens (and Juan, I think).
Each of these 5 drivers have shown over and over again, that they are willing (and capable) to keep on fighting, even if misfortune has thrown them back to the end of the grid.

[Damon]

Well, misfortune and greed.

[santori]

Ralf and David have had great races but they can't be classed above drivers with fewer wins (Alesi, Frentzen, Salo). They have been lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time and as the current trend in F1 seems to be to hang on to drivers, they've kept race-winning seats when there were better about.

[hamsmith]

don k
Villeneuve would still do a much better job than Ralf and DC.Villeneuve didn't have win year after year i know but he had a BAR to drive and no one has won in one of them yet.

[mp356a]

A little off-topic but JV and OP would be very good together at Toyota. They have worked together before and each respects the other quite a bit. Hmmmmmmm.
Mike

[Dani Filth]

yeah . but JV didn;t blow Panis at BAR ... hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Ralf]

Never a dull moment with Ralf Malph!

[Don K]

Originally posted by hamsmith
don k
Villeneuve would still do a much better job than Ralf and DC.Villeneuve didn't have win year after year i know but he had a BAR to drive and no one has won in one of them yet.

Jacques makes too many mistakes.
It's nice to have him on board if you want publicity.
Or if you want one or two very good results in a season.

But at this moment, Toyota is beyond that phase.
Now they need drivers who can bring points on a regular basis.

It doesn't necissarily have to be a top driver like Ralf or David.
They might go for someone like Frentzen, Panis or Salo. Or a big talent like Heidfeld.

But the next step would be getting podiums, and race wins. And at that time it would be good, if you already had someone like Ralf or David in your team.

[ASCII Man]

Originally posted by Dani Filth
yeah . but JV didn;t blow Panis at BAR ... hmmmmmmmmmmmm

So?
Panis is an excellent driver.
So is Button.
Hell, even Zonta was pretty good.

[chunterer]

i think it's more than likely that Ralf's gone for next year. If Dixon does well at Barca this week and Ralf ball's up again at Imola, then who knows what might be the upshot of that?!!! Why not bring him in early!

How about giving your new driver a good two third's of a season of practice? After all Dixon doesn't appear to be a crasher like Ralf is at the moment so would be less likely to do stupid things in fits of panic. Either that or put Gene in the car. Id' rather it was Dixon as he's the future and Gene, solid tester as he is ain't know budding superstar.

D Sthubbins has a good point about Ralf being strong while at the front. But that is now past tense. Think Ralf's well and truly shot his bolt and he'll struggle to regain his composure in time for a new Williams contract.

With the current pressure pact F1 environment you really have to be a hard racer, most of the front guys are, but Ralf is lacking badly and is being badly shown up.

When you've got the likes of Montoya, Kimi (when he's running!). Alonso, Button, Webber and now Sato as indicators then you wouldn't really want to sign Ralf would you?

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by Don K
Jacques makes too many mistakes.
It's nice to have him on board if you want publicity.
Or if you want one or two very good results in a season.

But at this moment, Toyota is beyond that phase.
Now they need drivers who can bring points on a regular basis.

Those words would apply extremely well to Ralf as well. If anything JV is the more consistant and less stroppy of the two.

[Super Tourer]

To my mind Ralf has never been on the 'must have' list and is even slipping down the 'will do' list.

Toyota are still unlikely to be front running next year, so if they had Ralf driving he would qualifying upper mid-field and racing in the pack still, which we all know is not his forte....

I think a wise policy would be to save their cash, keep with what they have amongst their contracted driver for another building year, and look around next year to see who is available.

Once they get up to full speed and are in a postion to win races/challenge the top 4, then they can open their extensive cheque book, prime their lawyers and go get someone who can do a real job for them.

No point signing up Ralf on a long and expensive contract.IMO.

[golem]

If I was Toyota, I'd get Heidfield instead. Nick's maybe not gonna set the world on fire, but there's definately fight in him. Him and DaMatta if Panis is to go. Briscoe is another option they have.

But then again, I'd also have to look very hard at Wilson. We've seen him do some pretty impressive stuff in the Minardi off the line last year, which to me indicates he knows what to do in traffic.

[chunterer]

Originally posted by golem
If I was Toyota, I'd get Heidfield instead. Nick's maybe not gonna set the world on fire, but there's definately fight in him. Him and DaMatta if Panis is to go. Briscoe is another option they have.

But then again, I'd also have to look very hard at Wilson. We've seen him do some pretty impressive stuff in the Minardi off the line last year, which to me indicates he knows what to do in traffic.

Interesting possibilty mate. Nick could still get a decent job done in a decent car (which i suppose he's never actually had) so i hope he gets a call. Hadn't thought of Wilson, but as much as i think the blokes a racer too, something tells me for some reason his face don't fit?

I'd prob run the risk and put Scotty D in one of them if he doesn't get a contract off Williams. It would be more fun discovering that he can really drive for next to nothing salary than have Ralf messing about and getting a bit shirty for 15mill or whatever it's supposed to be?